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Help needed on research project. Can Photoshop do this? We think not.


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I have studied all the images that the professor provided and all the images on pages that he linked to and in every case the result was just bad. It becomes even more noticeable when I push the contrast to the extremes in LAB mode of both original and filtered images. In that context I find it odd that we're being asked to find a way to achieve those same (bad) results. That's the problem I have with the whole idea; I haven't seen any benefit at all. I'm a visual guy, I've developed a keen eye for these things and I just want to see an image that visually got better. Even going by the actual numbers, I still see no improvement at all, only images that have their quality degraded.

I agree, our results are not always pleasing. However they were made with an engineering community in mind and their main point is to demonstrate the technology. More subtle changes would not have made the point as clearly (to engineers). The big issue is explain to computer vision people the difference between hue and color, which is a thing that most artists are familiar with.

We are thinking now of ways to now get this approach into the hands of people that can use it and can produce good looking results. If you could go to post number 10 and look at the image. Could you find a use for the tool described in the schematic?
 
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spreadtarget.jpg

Hue Curve in CurveMeister
63476207.jpg

Well well, this is a fascinating result.
Lab 'Man from Mars'
We were aware of this approach. It is interesting and can indeed shift hues. However, its results are unpredictable. What happens is that it can expand the hue range in some cases but only at the cost of compressing it in others (like squashing the hue ball).

Hue curves in Curvemeiseter
There is an optional Adobe PS plugin (on the installation disc) called HSB/HSL. It will convert the image to HSL or HSB but will not 'compile' it to anything that looks normal. However, its information can be 'recompiled' back into RGB. Using this approach it is possible, for example, to apply a contrast curve to the saturation values of an image (impossible in RGB using conventional means). It can also be used for shifting hue contrast, values as one is doing the adjustment in the pre-compiled state, the results are very unpredictable.

I did not know about Curvemeister. This is an eye opener. It seems to be doing what HSB/HSL does but with the advantage of being able to view the complied result. I shall ask my students to look into it (I'm a mac man myself and this plugin is PC only). Though, looking at what you posted, its results look similar there is (I asume) a significant difference to our underlying technology that would make a real difference in some instances. As this is unpublished work I shall have to be coy about saying too much here.

May I ask you a favor? Can we make contact and perhaps we send you more material? I would like to see the results of Curvemeister in experienced hands (and in high resolution).
 

jn4u

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Sorry but I have no time. That would be wonderful to have the HSB color space inside Photoshop and a rework Hue - Saturation filter based on some new formulas to make algorithms from you. But you should be able to remake my curve on your larger picture with the plugin.
A lot of ppl are only aware of luminosity contrast and “hue contrast” is for them unknown. They only make full range in luminosity and steepen the curve most interesting part in rgb channels. They don’t care about color spaces and different models outside photoshop.
And that’s always the problem with credibility. If you are photographer in the field of photojournalism changing a picture “hue contrast” is big no no. They want a “complete colors manage” work flow. That’s why they newer learn how to do it.
That’s why I also recommend you to make contact with following forum and ppl
Retouches working with photomontage at worth1000 dot com, Has lot of more freedom with to do stuff with photos.

Web Designers there are lot of talk about “hue contrast” and they have more freedom with their picture and creative work in Photoshop.
You’re getting in contact with somebody of Dan Margulies students or somebody on his old “color list”. You can also get your student read his books and take a look PPW Tools set for Photoshop.
 

jn4u

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I did not know about Curvemeister. This is an eye opener. It seems to be doing what HSB/HSL does but with the advantage of being able to view the complied result. I shall ask my students to look into it (I'm a mac man myself and this plugin is PC only). Though, looking at what you posted, its results look similar there is (I asume) a significant difference to our underlying technology that would make a real difference in some instances. As this is unpublished work I shall have to be coy about saying too much here.

I aslo think curvemeister gives same result hue range in some cases but only at the cost of compressing it in others (like squashing the hue ball). But the curve gives more control. And you are able get elusion of variation. But think your algrotim are better.
 
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Duplicating the layers a few times, changing one element on each layer, and then setting the layer blending options. It was done without using any pre-set filters, just a few alterations to hew, contrast etc. Hope this answers your question on whether or not it can be replicated in Photoshop.
 
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Duplicating the layers a few times, changing one element on each layer, and then setting the layer blending options. It was done without using any pre-set filters, just a few alterations to hew, contrast etc. Hope this answers your question on whether or not it can be replicated in Photoshop.

Would you mind sending us the PS file?
 

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