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  1. #1
    Guru MrToM's Avatar
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    Challenge Duration

    Quote Originally Posted by IamSam View Post
    ...Yes, we can extend the challenge to the 16th...
    ...'to' the 16th?

    So does that include the 16th, ie till 23:59:59 ON the 16th, OR till 23:59:59 ON the 15th?

    It would be so much simpler to just state a length of time the challenge runs over rather than setting specific dates.....14 days from the date of the challenge post means the same for everyone....wherever they are in the world....its time independent.

    Setting specific dates means that someone close to the dateline could potentially see further entries for another 24 hours after the challenge had supposedly closed....confusing.

    14 days is 14 days no matter what timezone you are in.

    I don't want to sound like I'm making a big deal over this but there never seems to be any consistency over the posting of challenges...the closing date is rarely included and yet is probably of most importance.

    The same goes for voting....7 days from the date of POLL post....doesn't that sound much easier? Doesn't that remove any elements of doubt as to how long there is to go?

    Forget specific dates, they are timezone dependant....remember "You have 5 seconds to comply"...no doubt when the end was going to happen there....eh?

    "On three or after three".....another good example.

    Not only does this way remove any doubt about times but it also gives members a little 'flexibility' in when challenges are posted but keeps the same amount of time for which they run and for voting regardless of the actual time posted.

    Allowances can be easily made if needed, say for instance you run out of gas, you get a flat tire, you don’t have change for cab fare, you lose your tux at the cleaners, you lock your keys in the car, maybe an old friend comes in from out of town, someone steals your car, there is an earthquake, a terrible flood, locusts!

    Just my 2

    Regards.
    MrToM.
    Last edited by MrToM; 04-12-2017 at 10:43 AM.


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  3. #2
    Administrator IamSam's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge #48- Cloud Warriors

    Quote Originally Posted by MrToM View Post
    ...'to' the 16th?

    So does that include the 16th, ie till 23:59:59 ON the 16th, OR till 23:59:59 ON the 15th?
    For this challenge, it will be 23:59:59 on the 16th.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrToM
    It would be so much simpler to just state a length of time the challenge runs over rather than setting specific dates.....14 days from the date of the challenge post means the same for everyone....wherever they are in the world....its time independent.
    The time frame is now 16 days. Challenge starts on the 1st day of the month and ends at 23:59:59 on the 16th day. 16 days is 16 days no matter what time zone your in. If the posting date of the challenge is late, doesn't matter, the challenge will run 16 days from the first day of every month.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrToM
    I don't want to sound like I'm making a big deal over this but there never seems to be any consistency over the posting of challenges...the closing date is rarely included and yet is probably of most importance.
    The closing date will be at 23:59:59 of 16th day after the first day of the month. We can encourage challenge starters to include closing dates.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrToM
    The same goes for voting....7 days from the date of POLL post....doesn't that sound much easier? Doesn't that remove any elements of doubt as to how long there is to go?
    To my knowledge, this is how we have always done this. The polling posts are often created late. The poll will run for 7 days from the date the poll is added to the challenge thread.

    I will add the verbiage to the instructions.

    Refresh your page to see replies!


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    Administrator IamSam's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge #48- Cloud Warriors

    The problem is the time zone for the poll. We need as set time reference that everyone can follow. Vee used GMT

    Open to suggestion here.

    I'm also moving this conversation to its own thread.
    Last edited by IamSam; 04-12-2017 at 11:50 AM. Reason: sorry, forgot the poll

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    Re: Challenge Duration

    Hey Sam

    I assumed the poll was set by the system, I mean after we open the poll and set the duration the system automatically closes it after the 7 days, maybe I'm wrong

    OK scrape that, I assume you mean when we open the poll?
    Last edited by gedstar; 04-12-2017 at 12:02 PM.

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  9. #5
    Guru MrToM's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge #48- Cloud Warriors

    Quote Originally Posted by IamSam View Post
    ...The problem is the time zone. We need as set time reference that everyone can follow...
    Using 'lengths' of time removes the problem.

    The point of my lengthy last post was to point out that if you don't use 'the time' then there isn't a problem....'the time' being different for everyone.

    At the moment the challenge 'post' is available for eveyone to read at the time of posting...instantly...the exact same moment in time. (Whatever time that is for each individual.)

    The problem is that stating a specific 'time & date' from that time of posting for the 'end' is different for everyone.

    Setting a 'length' of time removes the need to refer to any timezone...14 (or is it now 16?) days from the time of the challenge post being posted is the same amount of time for everyone.....the actual time and date is irrelevant.

    This way, not only is the start of the challenge the same for everyone, but also the end.....its 'x' amount of time from the start.

    I'm trying to get you to remove all reference to 'real' times......the 1st of the month is a real time....23:59:59 16 days later is a real time......remove that and the problem is solved.

    Challenge ends 14 (or is it now 16?) days from the time of posting the first post in the challenge thread.

    This makes it the same 'moment' in time for everyone...and everyone has the exact same amount of time for entries and voting.....again, regardless of the 'actual' time for each individual.

    As for the POLL....isn't the 'length' set when its created by whoever creates the POLL?

    I mentioned a little 'flexibility' before....this is so as not set in stone when the challenge should begin....within the first two days of the month is about as accurate as you need to get....the 'end' then being 14 (or is it now 16?) days from that point.

    You can always pull it back into sync if needs be by shortening the POLL or the amount of time for the winner to post the next challenge....which is different every month anyway so another day wouldn't hurt.

    So....d'ya see my warped sense of logic?

    Regards.
    MrToM.


    Did you know?
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    Re: Challenge Duration

    Quote Originally Posted by gedstar View Post
    Hey Sam

    I assumed the poll was set by the system, I mean after we open the poll and set the duration the system automatically closes it after the 7 days, maybe I'm wrong

    OK scrape that, I assume you mean when we open the poll?
    We set the poll time duration. I was thinking that it mattered where we (as mods) were geographically located and that it would affect the time............but it doesn't matter.

    Yes your right, I was concerned about the start time of the poll, but the more I thought about it, I realized it also doesn't matter as long as we start the poll at the end of the 16th day.

    Refresh your page to see replies!


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  13. #7
    Administrator IamSam's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge #48- Cloud Warriors

    @MrToM I totally get your logic and its sound.

    However, in order to maintain a consistent time frame for each month, the start of the time frame will be based on the first day of the month and not the posting time of the challenge thread. Regardless of when the challenge thread is started, the time allotment for the challenge will still be 16 days from the first day of the month. Everyone will still have the exact same amount of time to complete an entry. This avoids any mathematical wrestling for the challenge creators.

    Refresh your page to see replies!


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    Re: Challenge Duration

    I didn't realise the complexities (I don't mean that as a criticism - I really do appreciate the work that goes into this forum in the background - actually it is an issue like this that might help people to understand that these things don "just happen" but they take effort).

    There probably isn't a "perfect" solution - but I like the suggestion of a finite date that follows through from month to month - as suggested by @IamSam

    This could, perhaps, be based on GMT - not because I am a Brit but because it is a constant that everybody is aware of. If this was backed up with a table on the rules page that shows what this translates to in other time zones then hopefully this wouldn't have to be constantly restated.

    I sincerely hope that all of this doesn't get in the way of what is a really great part of the forum - would be a big shame.

    Just my 2 penneth.

    Cheers

    John
    Currently Using - PS CC 2017 - AI CC 2017 - InDesign CC 2015 - Dreamweaver CC 2015
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  17. #9
    Guru MrToM's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge #48- Cloud Warriors

    Quote Originally Posted by IamSam View Post
    ...Everyone will still have the exact same amount of time to complete an entry...
    Sorry mate but no, they wont, and that's my argument for the way I've proposed.

    Everyone gets notified of the challenge at exactly the same moment in time, but a 'fixed' date, the end of the 16th day in the month, to use your example, is different for each timezone.

    This means that the amount of time between the challenge being posted and that date must be different depending on the timezone you are in. Some members would have more than 16 days, whilst others would have less.

    I don't quite understand what this 'time frame' is but as long as the challenge is posted within 48 hours of the first day of the month then thats all that is needed, and running from the post date means 16 days later is the same moment in time for everyone.

    Also, the POLL can start immediately without having to take the timezones into consideration...(it could in theory start before the challenge has ended for eveyone at the moment) which means that anyone eligible can do so whenever regardless of 'their' timezone.....it just wouldn't matter.

    If the members are given a [48 hr] time 'slot' in which to post their challenge then the actual 'time' is irrelevant, 16 days later it ends and the POLL can immediately start, run for 7 days and voila! The remaining time is then available for the winner to create the next challenge....posted within 48 hours of the next month....rinse, spin, repeat.

    The remaining time is variable but since each month is different in length this is unavoidable...this 'thinking' time, to me anyway, seems the most logical to have as 'variable' as it only affects one person...the current winner.

    48 hours should be a reasonable enough time to keep it as close to the 1st as possible for the majority of people. The actual time of posting could be anything so this makes allowance for it.

    Removing actual 'times' means everyone has the same 16 days to enter, everyone has the same 7 days to vote. The winner has the remaining time to think....whatever that ends up being..but will still be a reasonable time.

    Nobody has to allow for leap years, the time, the date, how many days are in the month etc etc....it should all just work itself out....and its not exactly difficult to work out 16 days from the post date...is it?

    I've got a headache.

    Regards.
    MrToM.
    Last edited by MrToM; 04-12-2017 at 01:52 PM.


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  18. #10
    Forum Moderator gedstar's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge Duration

    @MrToM

    Everyone gets notified of the challenge at exactly the same moment in time
    OK, if I create a challenge @ 12 PM, for somebody in OZ they will be 10 hours ahead, so won't the challenge end 10 hours earlier for them?

    This is sooooooo confusing
    Last edited by gedstar; 04-12-2017 at 01:55 PM.

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