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How to create a Saturation mask?


Thonord

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Luminosity masks are in, but it is also possible to create a saturation mask.
A guy named Greg has made a panel named lumiSomeThing where, among others, saturation and vibrancy masks can be made.
I can buy the panel, which is probably what I will do anyway , but I would like to know how a saturation mask is made.

I assume the mask may made from the a and b channels in LAB since you can separate Red, Green, Blue and Yellow.
 

Thonord

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Definitely a color saturation mask, but it seems to be "global". I may be way out on left field, but I was thinking about a specific color saturation, like Red or Yellow only.
 

revnart

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Yes this one is global. But if you need to select only one color, color range or selection based on in ex. red / cyan etc. channel isn't enough?

Sent from my App Runtime for Chrome using Tapatalk
 

Thonord

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Interesting question. Unfortunately my answer is:"I don't know.". Probably because I'm not even sure what a saturation mask is. Wife keeps complaining that my colors are too saturated.

Like this:

CapeWrathSmall.jpg


I'll Google and Youtube a bit, and return when I am more educated.
Thanks for your answers
 

Tom Mann

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Here's a hypothetical situation. Your wife is on the boat with you when you took the picture of the lighthouse in post #5 and you include her in the next picture. You want the same, nice blue skies and water as in the picture of the lighthouse that you posted. so you process the shot that includes your wife exactly the same way as you processed the image you posted. Unfortunately, you immediately discover that you have increased the overall saturation so much that her skin now is as red as a cooked lobster, LOL.

My guess is that you have faced situations like the above, and all your really are looking for is a way to get more acceptable colors, particularly, people's skin, and you'll be equally happy whether or not the method involves a saturation mask, or not.

If this is the case, see if using a "Hue / Saturation" adjustment layer does what you want. Here are some good tutorials on the subject:
http://www.apogeephoto.com/aug2010/watts82010.shtml
http://www.designpanoply.com/blog/h...hue-saturation-adjustment-layers-in-photoshop

There are lots of other ways to make these sorts of corrections, but try this first, and if it doesn't work, post what you have and we can walk you through it before moving on to another, completely different method.


HTH,

Tom M
 

Tom Mann

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Also, the following links may be of interest to you and others who may also be interested in this topic and find this thread:

A plugin to generate saturation masks. I just tested it, and it works on CC 2014 x64:
http://www.russellcottrell.com/photo/saturationMask.asp

Using the old standard HSL/HSB plugin to generate saturation masks:
http://www.thethinnegative.com/ttn-blog/2011/7/22/the-photoshop-hsbhsl-plug-in.html

More on the old HSB/HSL plugin:
http://feedback.photoshop.com/photo...ncluding_hsb_hsl_does_not_work_in_cc_2014_mac


HTH,

Tom M
 

Thonord

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Here's a hypothetical situation. Your wife is on the boat with you when you took the picture of the lighthouse in post #5 and you include her in the next picture. You want the same, nice blue skies and water as in the picture of the lighthouse that you posted. so you process the shot that includes your wife exactly the same way as you processed the image you posted. Unfortunately, you immediately discover that you have increased the overall saturation so much that her skin now is as red as a cooked lobster, LOL.

My guess is that you have faced situations like the above, and all your really are looking for is a way to get more acceptable colors, particularly, people's skin, and you'll be equally happy whether or not the method involves a saturation mask, or not.

If this is the case, see if using a "Hue / Saturation" adjustment layer does what you want. Here are some good tutorials on the subject:
http://www.apogeephoto.com/aug2010/watts82010.shtml
http://www.designpanoply.com/blog/h...hue-saturation-adjustment-layers-in-photoshop

There are lots of other ways to make these sorts of corrections, but try this first, and if it doesn't work, post what you have and we can walk you through it before moving on to another, completely different method.


HTH,

Tom M

Hi Tom.
I agree with everything you say:) but its really not that I need a saturation mask, but more that I want to understand them better and maybe add one into an existing action.

The lighthouse image is the result of a action I wrote (courtesy Dan Margulis' book "The classic guide to color correction"),
I change color space to LAB, increase contrast in a & b, sharpen lightness, and return to RGB. On the above image I got a surprise in the "redish/brown" rocks.

Below is a jpg thumbnail of the RAW file with no adjustments made.

CapeWrathOrg.jpg


Sure I can go back into LAB and reduce the red/green saturation in a, but I am thinking it would be easier to use a color range specific saturation mask (if such an animal exists?)

Its all part of my learning curve.

Thanks for the link to Designpanoply: Its probably the way I will go, in the end.

But first I will experiment with the Russel Cotrel way.
 
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Tom Mann

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OP: "... but its really not that I need a saturation mask, but more that I want to understand them better ..."

Maybe this will help:

In Photoshop, masks select parts of images to be modified or blended with some other image (eg, lower on the layer stack). However, you should be aware that the term, "saturation mask", does not imply that it's going to be used to modify the saturation of the image any more than the term "luminosity mask" implies that it's going to be used to modify the brightness of different areas of the image. The term saturation mask merely implies that parts of the image with different degrees of saturation are selected to lesser or greater degrees (ie, for other processing)

For example, you may use a saturation mask to smooth the highly saturated areas more than the weakly saturated areas, or let a background image peek through the weakly saturated areas.

Correspondingly, a luminosity mask might be used to smooth or denoise the dark areas more than the bright areas, or it might be used to let a background image peek through the darker areas.

HTH,

Tom M
 

Thonord

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OP: "... but its really not that I need a saturation mask, but more that I want to understand them better ..."

Maybe this will help:

However, you should be aware that the term, "saturation mask", does not imply that it's going to be used to modify the saturation of the image any more than the term "luminosity mask" implies that it's going to be used to modify the brightness of different areas of the image.
Correspondingly, a luminosity mask might be used to smooth or denoise the dark areas more than the bright areas, or it might be used to let a background image peek through the darker areas.

HTH,

Tom M

Yes. I am aware of that and I want to take advantage of the "automatic" soft transition between the masked areas. Ex, Blue sky through foliage. I could spend a lifetime making a mask "by hand", while a luminosity mask can be made in 1-2-3. And no halos along edges.
Remember, I'm a newbie. I just recently discovered luminosity masks, like a few months ago. Only"yesterday" I found out that HSL is somehow back in PS, even if the color space is not. That's intriguing since the G channel is saturation.

Like I said earlier, I don't even know if my goal* is possible or not, but I'm sure gonna find it out!

This is where people like you guys come in.

It is greatly appreciated.

* Selective color saturation mask
 

Thonord

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Update:)

I thought I would read the Wikipedia article about the HSL color space in an attempt to understand what saturation actually is. Wow, did I NOT understand that:)

So I have given up "color selective saturation masking" and switched to "Badly over saturated Saturation Masking".

I have an image, taken at noon; where I struggled with over saturating green leaves due to the bright sunlight. To get shadow detail elsewhere the leaves became very green.

The green channel in Filter-Other-HSL/HSl is a saturation mask. By treating it like a luminosity mask ie. intersecting it as needed, it became a saturation mask for badly saturated pixels - and they were all "the green leaves":) !,


Case closed. Thank you all for your help.
 

Tom Mann

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I'm very glad that you have found a procedure to do what you want, but may I ask, if all you wanted to do was reduce the saturation of some heavily saturated hue (eg, green), why didn't you just make a mask to select (say) the greens using any of several methods (eg, the green channel, quick masking, color range, the lasso tool, etc.), and then use that mask to control a vibrance / saturation adjustment layer?

My confusion is because when someone asks repeatedly and specifically for a saturation mask, it's usually because they want to adjust the un-saturated or weakly saturated colors differently from the average saturated areas and the highly saturated areas in some way that can't be done with a simple adjustment layer. With a vibrance / saturation adjustment layer, if you increase the vibrance and decrease the saturation, you'll get the effect of decreasing the highly saturated colors while retaining saturation in the weakly saturated colors.

Tom M
 

Thonord

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I understand your confusion, but I'm a 68 year old newbie and not good with colors. I'm sure there are at least 4 different ways to anything in Photoshop, and I know but a fraction of them.
I like luminosity masks and I started this thread because I heard about saturation masks.I didn't know how to make or use them. I didn't really understand the math behind saturation, and still don't, but I have learned a lot these few days. I'm also a slow learner, but I recognize the relevance in the links published in this thread. However it will take me months to waddle through them, and I din't want to be the guy who asks a question and returns 3 months later to follow up on the answers.

I may not qualify for this forum, but it has already proven to be a treasure trove for me.

You can say things like: "With a vibrance / saturation adjustment layer, if you increase the vibrance and decrease the saturation, you'll get the effect of decreasing the highly saturated colors while retaining saturation in the weakly saturated colors". off the top of your head, I would need a couple of weeks reading and experimenting. But, now its on the top of my ToDo list, and now I even understand it. Last week I wouldn't:)
 

IamSam

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Ps is very complex and there are many different techniques that all accomplish the same thing.

This may not be even close to what your needing but I use an 18 channel layer separation luminosity mask (brights, darks, and midtones) that allows me to create masks (added to adjustment layers) to isolate certain colors, variations in vibrancy, hue, luminosity and saturation to some degree.

Screen Shot 2015-06-30 at 1.59.48 PM.png

This allow me to create target specific masks for adjustment layers.
Here is a H&S adjustment mask used to isolate mainly the blues form your sample image which I used to saturate the sky, some of the water and some of the greens a bit.

Screen Shot 2015-06-30 at 2.10.31 PM.png

Screen Shot 2015-06-30 at 2.17.17 PM.png

I could also target just the sky or or just the water as shown in this group.
All masks derived from the 18 layer luminosity mask.

Screen Shot 2015-06-30 at 2.18.31 PM.png

Something more for you to consider.
 

Tom Mann

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Following up on Sam's comment that there are always many ways to skin a cat in Photoshop :), while one should master the native tools before moving on to add-ons like panels, plugins, actions, etc. sometimes good commercial add-ons make things go much faster and easier to visualize. For example, suppose I had a picture of some sea rocks as shown in the attached image, but I wanted to emphasize the vegetation (without over-saturating it), and also emphasize the red stains on the rocks, again without oversaturating them, AND making the un-stained regions of the rock look "purer" (ie, closer to a neutral color).

Well, there is a plugin called Color Mechanic that allows one to do this in seconds, merely by drawing arrows on its user interface. It should be pretty obvious what the arrows are doing.

Adjustents_using_Color_Mechanic.jpg

Sea_rocks-color_modifications_using_color_mechanic-ps02_698px_wide_for_GIF.gif

More food for thought.

Tom M
 

Thonord

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Thanks for your detailed answer YouwhoRsam.

I do it differently, because I have limited RAM. I create Bright1 one then intersect me down to the one I think will work. If it works, I keep the current and Bright1. I delete the others. I keep Bright1 because I may need Dark ones. Yes, if I need a mid tone mask, I have to do a lot over again, bu that's OK.

I'm just a poor guy, living half way out in the middle of nowhere, with my two dogs under my desk, keeping my feet warm during winter.
I bark at the mailman, just as bad as the dogs do. Eh- does that qualify me for the GOF group?
 

Thonord

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Yes, mastering the native tools is very important, and I am guilty in that sense. If I read about something I dont need, there and then it does not stick!,

Nice picture, looks like the Mediterranean. The Amalfi coast?

Re. Color Mechanic Seems to be something wrong with their web site.
 
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Tom Mann

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Hi Thonord - I just double checked the website for Color Mechanic, and it seems to be working fine, although I didn't go through all the steps including downloading and re-installing it because I didn't want to possibly muck up my license for the software.

Here are the pages of interest:
http://dl-c.com/site/downloads/cm-apps.php
http://dl-c.com/site/products/buy-cm.php
http://www.dl-c.com/Temp/downloads/Color Mechanic 2/CM_article3.pdf

Unfortunately, it's relatively expensive ( $70 USD), but I find it extremely useful for my event and other photography work -- you know, time is money, and all that.

Tom M

PS - re: Barking at the mailman - I wouldn't worry about it. Like a good dog, it's probably a sign of an inherently good solid, protective disposition, and it also sounds like you are definitely GOF material, but unfortunately, that group hasn't been very active lately -0- they've been too grumpy, LOL.

PPS - BTW, just how far north are you? Bodo? Tromso? Got any good pix of Northern Lights to share?
 

thebestcpu

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Hi Thonord
I am going to take a different angle on this then provide some information on Saturation Masks

Here is the analogy. When cooking, when you add too much salt, many times it is hard to correct the problem with other means (e.g adding sugar)

I think part of the issue is that things went out of whack using the Lab techniques and then trying to recover from that step. Lab adjustments are very sensitive and are hard to fine tune to what you want.

I suggest you consider when bringing in a raw file to use either Lightroom or Adobe ACR for the initial adjustments. Alternately, you can make the image a Smart Object and use the Camera Raw filter. The image below was started with the raw image (actually in JPEG) and just using the Camera Raw filter with no other PS adjustments just to give an idea of what can be done. The ACR (or LR) adjustments are easy and intuitive:

CapeWrathOrg-ACR-adjustments-only.jpg

That would be my strongest recommendation as the end is an image you want, not the "how" of getting there such as with the use of Saturation Masks.

With that out of the way (all my opinion of course), I think you have seen that there are many interpretations surrounding "saturation" and therefore how to incorporate a saturation mask.

I prefer the definition along the lines is the more colorful it is the more saturated it is. That means that as your approach blacks or whites there is less saturation. PS itself uses several types of saturation. One is HSB in the color picker and another is what is used in the Saturation Blend.

Mathematically, Saturation of the Saturation Blend mode is for any given pixel Saturation = Maximum (R,G,B) - Minimum (R,G,B). A saturation mask could be made knowing just that formula if one knows how to do that in PS. Turns out that just using the Saturation Blend is insufficient by itself (I won't go into details here).

Attached in this post is an Action Set containing one 32 step action that will create this Saturation Layer.

Following is an example test image of all colors at all values of luminosity. This is followed by the Saturation Layer created by the Action. This is basically the same type of Saturation Mask that revnart provided as one of the first posts to this thread:

Color-Spectrum.jpg

Saturation-Mask.jpg


Note that the Saturation Layer is brightest in the same spots that have the deepest colors and darker when the colors fade away to dark or light. That is my preferred interpretation of Saturation of making adjustments in PS.

Now the Action does not turn the Saturation Layer into an actual Layer Mask though that could easily be added. Just click Cmd/Ctrl + click on the RGB composite channel in the Channels Panel which creates a selection and then convert the selection into a Layer Mask (this will automatically done by adding an Adjustment Layer such as Hue/Sat Adjustment Layer).

For your efforts to adjust saturation of different colors selectively, all you have to do is from within the Hue/Sat Adjustment Layer, change the drop down from Master to the desired color and change the Saturation (and optionally the Lightness and Hue). You can do this independently for other colors by selecting another Color in the drop down list and making additional independent adjustments for those colors. With the Saturation Layer Mask attached, the adjustments will impact the highly saturated colors the most.

Again, I would approach it by not taking the Lab process first yet wanted to be complete in my answer.

Hope this post was of some help (though I was late to the game).
 

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  • Saturation Set.atn
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Thonord

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thebestcpu

Thank you again:)
ACR: I have been working under the "do as little damage as possible" in ACR. Just white balance, minor exposure, set black and white points and lens correction. Then open as 16 bit in PS. (8 bit for experimenting).
Now that I know what the end result should look like after ACR, I will try more adjusting in ACR.

Thanks for the action, it will be very helpful, because I don't quite understand the " pixel Saturation = Maximum (R,G,B) - Minimum (R,G,B)"
Which maximum pixel - what minimum pixel? I shall experiment with your action.


 
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