Challenge Duration

#1
...Yes, we can extend the challenge to the 16th...
...'to' the 16th?

So does that include the 16th, ie till 23:59:59 ON the 16th, OR till 23:59:59 ON the 15th?

It would be so much simpler to just state a length of time the challenge runs over rather than setting specific dates.....14 days from the date of the challenge post means the same for everyone....wherever they are in the world....its time independent.

Setting specific dates means that someone close to the dateline could potentially see further entries for another 24 hours after the challenge had supposedly closed....confusing.

14 days is 14 days no matter what timezone you are in.

I don't want to sound like I'm making a big deal over this but there never seems to be any consistency over the posting of challenges...the closing date is rarely included and yet is probably of most importance.

The same goes for voting....7 days from the date of POLL post....doesn't that sound much easier? Doesn't that remove any elements of doubt as to how long there is to go?

Forget specific dates, they are timezone dependant....remember "You have 5 seconds to comply"...no doubt when the end was going to happen there....eh?

"On three or after three".....another good example.

Not only does this way remove any doubt about times but it also gives members a little 'flexibility' in when challenges are posted but keeps the same amount of time for which they run and for voting regardless of the actual time posted.

Allowances can be easily made if needed, say for instance you run out of gas, you get a flat tire, you don’t have change for cab fare, you lose your tux at the cleaners, you lock your keys in the car, maybe an old friend comes in from out of town, someone steals your car, there is an earthquake, a terrible flood, locusts!

Just my 2¢

Regards.
MrToM.
 
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IamSam

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#2
Re: Challenge #48- Cloud Warriors

...'to' the 16th?

So does that include the 16th, ie till 23:59:59 ON the 16th, OR till 23:59:59 ON the 15th?
For this challenge, it will be 23:59:59 on the 16th.

MrToM said:
It would be so much simpler to just state a length of time the challenge runs over rather than setting specific dates.....14 days from the date of the challenge post means the same for everyone....wherever they are in the world....its time independent.
The time frame is now 16 days. Challenge starts on the 1st day of the month and ends at 23:59:59 on the 16th day. 16 days is 16 days no matter what time zone your in. If the posting date of the challenge is late, doesn't matter, the challenge will run 16 days from the first day of every month.

MrToM said:
I don't want to sound like I'm making a big deal over this but there never seems to be any consistency over the posting of challenges...the closing date is rarely included and yet is probably of most importance.
The closing date will be at 23:59:59 of 16th day after the first day of the month. We can encourage challenge starters to include closing dates.

MrToM said:
The same goes for voting....7 days from the date of POLL post....doesn't that sound much easier? Doesn't that remove any elements of doubt as to how long there is to go?
To my knowledge, this is how we have always done this. The polling posts are often created late. The poll will run for 7 days from the date the poll is added to the challenge thread.

I will add the verbiage to the instructions.
 

IamSam

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#3
Re: Challenge #48- Cloud Warriors

The problem is the time zone for the poll. We need as set time reference that everyone can follow. Vee used GMT

Open to suggestion here.

I'm also moving this conversation to its own thread.
 
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gedstar

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#4
Hey Sam

I assumed the poll was set by the system, I mean after we open the poll and set the duration the system automatically closes it after the 7 days, maybe I'm wrong

OK scrape that, I assume you mean when we open the poll?
 
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#5
Re: Challenge #48- Cloud Warriors

...The problem is the time zone. We need as set time reference that everyone can follow...
Using 'lengths' of time removes the problem.

The point of my lengthy last post was to point out that if you don't use 'the time' then there isn't a problem....'the time' being different for everyone.

At the moment the challenge 'post' is available for eveyone to read at the time of posting...instantly...the exact same moment in time. (Whatever time that is for each individual.)

The problem is that stating a specific 'time & date' from that time of posting for the 'end' is different for everyone.

Setting a 'length' of time removes the need to refer to any timezone...14 (or is it now 16?) days from the time of the challenge post being posted is the same amount of time for everyone.....the actual time and date is irrelevant.

This way, not only is the start of the challenge the same for everyone, but also the end.....its 'x' amount of time from the start.

I'm trying to get you to remove all reference to 'real' times......the 1st of the month is a real time....23:59:59 16 days later is a real time......remove that and the problem is solved.

Challenge ends 14 (or is it now 16?) days from the time of posting the first post in the challenge thread.

This makes it the same 'moment' in time for everyone...and everyone has the exact same amount of time for entries and voting.....again, regardless of the 'actual' time for each individual.

As for the POLL....isn't the 'length' set when its created by whoever creates the POLL?

I mentioned a little 'flexibility' before....this is so as not set in stone when the challenge should begin....within the first two days of the month is about as accurate as you need to get....the 'end' then being 14 (or is it now 16?) days from that point.

You can always pull it back into sync if needs be by shortening the POLL or the amount of time for the winner to post the next challenge....which is different every month anyway so another day wouldn't hurt.

So....d'ya see my warped sense of logic? :rofl:

Regards.
MrToM.
 

IamSam

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#6
Hey Sam

I assumed the poll was set by the system, I mean after we open the poll and set the duration the system automatically closes it after the 7 days, maybe I'm wrong

OK scrape that, I assume you mean when we open the poll?
We set the poll time duration. I was thinking that it mattered where we (as mods) were geographically located and that it would affect the time............but it doesn't matter.

Yes your right, I was concerned about the start time of the poll, but the more I thought about it, I realized it also doesn't matter as long as we start the poll at the end of the 16th day.
 

IamSam

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#7
Re: Challenge #48- Cloud Warriors

MrToM I totally get your logic and its sound.

However, in order to maintain a consistent time frame for each month, the start of the time frame will be based on the first day of the month and not the posting time of the challenge thread. Regardless of when the challenge thread is started, the time allotment for the challenge will still be 16 days from the first day of the month. Everyone will still have the exact same amount of time to complete an entry. This avoids any mathematical wrestling for the challenge creators.
 
#8
I didn't realise the complexities (I don't mean that as a criticism - I really do appreciate the work that goes into this forum in the background - actually it is an issue like this that might help people to understand that these things don "just happen" but they take effort).

There probably isn't a "perfect" solution - but I like the suggestion of a finite date that follows through from month to month - as suggested by @IamSam

This could, perhaps, be based on GMT - not because I am a Brit :) but because it is a constant that everybody is aware of. If this was backed up with a table on the rules page that shows what this translates to in other time zones then hopefully this wouldn't have to be constantly restated.

I sincerely hope that all of this doesn't get in the way of what is a really great part of the forum - would be a big shame.

Just my 2 penneth.

Cheers

John
 
#9
Re: Challenge #48- Cloud Warriors

...Everyone will still have the exact same amount of time to complete an entry...
Sorry mate but no, they wont, and that's my argument for the way I've proposed.

Everyone gets notified of the challenge at exactly the same moment in time, but a 'fixed' date, the end of the 16th day in the month, to use your example, is different for each timezone.

This means that the amount of time between the challenge being posted and that date must be different depending on the timezone you are in. Some members would have more than 16 days, whilst others would have less.

I don't quite understand what this 'time frame' is but as long as the challenge is posted within 48 hours of the first day of the month then thats all that is needed, and running from the post date means 16 days later is the same moment in time for everyone.

Also, the POLL can start immediately without having to take the timezones into consideration...(it could in theory start before the challenge has ended for eveyone at the moment) which means that anyone eligible can do so whenever regardless of 'their' timezone.....it just wouldn't matter.

If the members are given a [48 hr] time 'slot' in which to post their challenge then the actual 'time' is irrelevant, 16 days later it ends and the POLL can immediately start, run for 7 days and voila! The remaining time is then available for the winner to create the next challenge....posted within 48 hours of the next month....rinse, spin, repeat.

The remaining time is variable but since each month is different in length this is unavoidable...this 'thinking' time, to me anyway, seems the most logical to have as 'variable' as it only affects one person...the current winner.

48 hours should be a reasonable enough time to keep it as close to the 1st as possible for the majority of people. The actual time of posting could be anything so this makes allowance for it.

Removing actual 'times' means everyone has the same 16 days to enter, everyone has the same 7 days to vote. The winner has the remaining time to think....whatever that ends up being..but will still be a reasonable time.

Nobody has to allow for leap years, the time, the date, how many days are in the month etc etc....it should all just work itself out....and its not exactly difficult to work out 16 days from the post date...is it?

I've got a headache.

Regards.
MrToM.
 
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gedstar

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#10
@MrToM

Everyone gets notified of the challenge at exactly the same moment in time
OK, if I create a challenge @ 12 PM, for somebody in OZ they will be 10 hours ahead, so won't the challenge end 10 hours earlier for them?

This is sooooooo confusing :rofl:
 
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#11
...OK, if I create a challenge @ 12 PM, for somebody in OZ they will be 10 hours ahead, so won't the challenge end 10 hours earlier for them?

This is sooooooo confusing :rofl:
LOL....not if you ignore 'the time'.

The ONLY common denominator is the TIME the challenge post is posted.

This is DIFFERENT for everyone but is the same MOMENT in time.

16 days from that MOMENT in time is 16 days regardless of what the actual time is for each individual.

If we use the challenge post time as a starting point its the same MOMENT in time for everyone....the difficult bit is getting the same MOMENT in time for the end.....stating a time 'length' of 16 days does this....actual 'times' as in 12PM for example are meaningless as 12PM is at a different MOMENT in time for eveyone.

The solution is to NOT use actual times and/or dates.

Granted something has to be done for when a challenge is to be posted which is why maybe a 48 hour 'slot' at the start of the month could be a possible way around it.

The actual start 'time' is of no relevance but the one thing everyone can relate to, and gets at the exact same time is the time the challenge is posted.....its recorded by the forum and displayed in the post.

The POLL post should sort itself out....you quote it to end in 7 days and 'the system' works out what time that is for each member's timezone...and displays that time in the POLL.

We can't, unfortunately, do that for a forum post but one COULD post a 'NULL' POLL in the challenge thread that runs for 16 days....that way members would have the exact 'time' at which the challenge ended....its displayed in the POLL itself.

No member would then have to work anything out, the end 'time' would be there for all to see...and correct for everyone too! BONUS!!

That POLL could then just be replaced with the valid voting POLL....which again will display the exact time the POLL ends.

Just thinking out loud there.

Regards.
MrToM.
 

gedstar

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#12
This is so much reminding me of Brian Cox, I could never understand that Space, Time thing no matter how many times I watched it :shocked:
 
#13
I know what you mean but its pretty simple really.

Lets take a challenge posted on the forum.

For you and I the time at which that challenge is posted is say 12PM.
For MrOz its 10PM.

We all have 1 hour, (a length of time), to complete the challenge.

Now, for you and I that means by 1PM.
For MrOz it means by 11PM.

No problems for either party.

OTOH, if we are told we have till 1PM, (an actual time), we have problems...for you and I though its OK, we can do that, but for poor MrOz the 'end' time is 9 hours BEFORE he even got the challenge!

Stating actual times is the problem.
Avoid them and all will be good...honestly....you'll have Titan rising in Uranus before you can read War and Peace.

Regards.
MrToM.
 

gedstar

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#14
OK got it I think, may take some TIME to sink in :rofl:

Well it's back to snakes and ladders for me I'm half way to the top :biglaff:
 

IamSam

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#15
..........but one COULD post a 'NULL' POLL in the challenge thread that runs for 16 days....that way members would have the exact 'time' at which the challenge ended....its displayed in the POLL itself.

No member would then have to work anything out, the end 'time' would be there for all to see...and correct for everyone too! BONUS!!

That POLL could then just be replaced with the valid voting POLL....which again will display the exact time the POLL ends.

Just thinking out loud there.

Regards.
MrToM.
I like this idea....................I think a test would be appropriate. The only problem I foresee is that the "null poll" would need to be started by a mod.................so the countdown would not start until then.
 
#16
...I like this idea...
It was the only way I could think of to get a 'common' end time for everyone.

...so the countdown would not start until then...
As long as its made clear that its the POLL time that we go by then it shouldn't be a problem....should it?

If the POLL gets added a few hours later it doesn't really matter...everyone will still have the same time regardless.

As long as the 'NULL' POLL doesn't get added too late after the initial post then it should work....but...

If the [POLL] time is granular enough to have a few hours knocked off then great, it can be put back 'in-sync' with the forum post...doesn't have to be spot on either...but as far as access to the challenge and the end time...its still all the same no matter where you are.

Winner winner chicken dinner! :thumbsup:

Regards.
MrToM.
 

IamSam

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#17
If the [POLL] time is granular enough to have a few hours knocked off then great, it can be put back 'in-sync' with the forum post...doesn't have to be spot on either...but as far as access to the challenge and the end time...its still all the same no matter where you are.
That would be nice, unfortunately, the increment of time for a poll is days.....
Screen Shot 2017-04-12 at 3.59.05 PM.png
 
#20
Thinking about it you could just post the 'NULL' POLL 24 hours after the challenge post and set it to 15 days instead.

Nothing changes except the time the POLL is on display.....I'm sure 24 hrs wont hurt.

Thinking aloud again....I must stop.

Regards.
MrToM.