cs3 beta question

[ronmatt]

Haven't been around for a while.....been busy-busy-busy. But I have a PSCS3 question and what better place to ask than here.
I've been beta testing PSCS3 since December. I'm getting to really like it, It's not as sluggish on my machine as CS2 was ( but I eventually got around that after some tweaking ) and I got used to the new interface within a week. Seeing how I use PS primarily for illustration, I probably won't invest in it. I was hoping for some advances in shaders and auto perspective.
My question for those of you who have played with it ( mine came with no help files???) In 7 and CS , a clipping mask could be created by activating the layer you wanted to clip, over the layer you wanted to use as the mask and keying
Ctrl+ G. This function now seems to create a new grouped layer in both CS2 and CS3, but no clipping. Is there another step now? or another command all together? ( Gaussian, I'm sure you have an answer for this ) What I want to accomplish is using a photo or object as a reflection on yet another object.
Anyway, I've got some really neat 'glass' effects I've come up with which I'll be posting examples of soon. They're done with CS because that clipping function is required.

 

[Gaussian]

Nice to see you back Ron. 8))

I've been beta testing PSCS3 since December. I'm getting to really like it, It's not as sluggish on my machine as CS2 was ( but I eventually got around that after some tweaking ) and I got used to the new interface within a week.

I like it too, it seems indeed faster than CS2. What I begin to understand is that this (speed) has become an important issue for the developers, because people have seen even bigger speed improvements in Illustrator CS3.
Even bridge is a lot faster, although I doubt I will ever be a huge fan of that monstrosity.
What I really like about CS3 is non-destructive filters.

As for the clipping group problem. Yes, Ctrl+G creates a layer group (in CS and earlier called layer set).
Since CS2 the new shortcut is Ctrl+Alt+G (Command + Option + G on the Mac).

For those who wonder what CS3 has to offer, here's a list a made a few weeks ago:

Auto align layers
Auto blend for stitched images
Device Central 1.0
Smart filters (non-destructive filters (including Shadows and Highlight) which you can combine with a mask)
Quick selection tool
Adjustable Cloning and Healing with preview overlay
Zoomify (Google maps style zoom interface for web based images)
Improved curves
Refine Edge (to modify the edge of any selection)
Refined interface (see examples below)
Enhanced Brightness/Contrast
New advanced Black and White conversion tool
Improved print window
2 new blend modes: Lighter Color, Darker Color
Enhanced Photo Merge function
Enhanced Merge to 23-Bit HDR
Enhanced Channel Mixer (filter presets)
New Bridge version
Improved vanishing point with multiple, adjustable angle perspective planes
Camera Raw 4.0

Personally I thinks it's a pitty that (again) most features are mainly focused on photography, I would like to see more changes in other areas. I also find it hard to understand how Lightroom fits in; it seems to me that both products have tons of overlapping features. \:/

 

[ronmatt]

Thanks Gaussian, works like a charm. I suppose that by the time PSCS5 gets here I'll have to find a way to grow another finger. Now another question my 'c' drive has been averaging 39 deg. and my 'f' drive about 41. Today 'c' is 41 and 'f' is 46 are these safe numbers? \:/

 

[Gaussian]

Now another question my 'c' drive has been averaging 39 deg. and my 'f' drive about 41. Today 'c' is 41 and 'f' is 46 are these safe numbers?

The general consensus is that any temperatures above about 40 will have a negative effect on long term durability, meaning that an increase for example from 40 to 45 will have a larger negative impact than an increase from 30 to 35 degrees (it?s not a linear pattern). But in that case we?re talking about above normal temperatures over longer periods of time; think more about months instead of weeks. 50+ temperatures are considered critical and 60+ temperatures?.well, that?s the ultimate limit that most drive manufacturers mention, meaning that no drive should run at 60+ at any time, not even for a few minutes.

I have to say that nothing is black and white; there are users whose 40+ drives fail after one year, others run happily with that temperature for several years, but like I said, in general the consensus is to keep temperatures in the thirties or lower.

The other side of the coin is; too low is also not good, but then you talk about hard drive temperatures lower than 20 degrees, which seldom happens.

There are several ways to keep these temperatures under control, some of which might surprise you. It would mean a long post, but if you?re really interested, no sweat and I will write it down for you.
With my methods for example I manage to run both hard drives at 29 and 30 degrees Celsius at a room temperature of 23 degrees Celsius. With my experience as computer specialist I feel that any drive temperatures higher than 10 degrees Celsius above ambient room temperatures are too high and put an unnecessary stress on the drives.
You know, it also depends on how serious a person is about her/his data. Some people never heard about backups, so I doubt they care whether their drives runs at 45 instead of 35 degrees Celsius.


As for me using Celsius instead of fahrenheit; I grew up with Celsius and I always had/have a hard time to convert it to Fahrenheit, so if some of these numbers don?t make any sense, then consider this simple converter: http://www.wbuf.noaa.gov/tempfc.htm

 

[ronmatt]

thanks for your reply gaussian. I do back everything up on a regular basis. ( although with about 1000 cd's full of files, I'd be hard pressed to find what I was searching for ) I thought 45-50 was safe although my sensor says that the 'f' drive is marginal. It's probably time to add another fan (?)

 

[Lee]

I also find it hard to understand how Lightroom fits in; it seems to me that both products have tons of overlapping features.

I've wondered that too, Gaus. I downloaded the beta and played around with it. I LOVE the look of the black/grey GUI. Being a photographer the images look so much better on a dark background (IMO). I have Bridge set to show my thumbnails on black. But what Adobe is interested in is whether folks will buy it? I won't. It just is not different enough from PS/Bridge for me to spend my money.

 

[Tron]

I think that Adobe is coming out with new versions just to rake more money out of us. I have PS 7, PSCS, and PSCS2 and don't find enough improvements in them to justify the cost. For the most part I still us PS7 for most of my work. I just feel more comfortable with it. 8))

 

[Gaussian]

Everybody will have a different view on what's considered expensive. I for example don't think that $199 for a CS2 upgrade here in Canada is an unfair price.
Spread that money over two years (pretty much the time between Photoshop releases) and we're talking about $100 a year. I don't think it's a lot of money, even if it's just a hobby. Again, if you only open Photoshop 25 times a year, ok, but if you're having a lot of fun with it almost every day or week, why not?On the other hand... if you're not planning to use any of the new features, then why upgrade, right?
I'm not a drinker or smoker but I met tons of people who spend that amount or more every month. One of my sons is visiting a pop concert; $40 (I'm happy he's paying it himself). That's what I mean, there are so many things that equally expensive or more.
And if you're like me and you even manage to make some money with Photoshop in your spare time, then suddenly the current price tag becomes totally irrelevant.

As for prices, I have to admit that I never understood these high prices in other countries. The largest part of my life I lived in Europe and when I check the prices in the Netherlands (where I was born), then I see prices close to $400 for an upgrade. Personally I never understood why Photoshop has to be so expensive in Europe, maybe Spectre can shine a light on this.

 

[ronmatt]

I am also a huge fan of PS7. I thought PSCS was a rip off and PSCS2 , not that much better. As for what I've seen of CS3,
I can honestly say that right now I'm on the edge. I think they've made a much bigger step forward with it than the others and if they would come to grips with the fact that it's as much a tool for [us] illustrators as it is for photographers and consentrated on providing some enhanced illustration goodies that would eliminate the need for some essential 3rd party plugins, they'd have an absolute winner. But then, what else could we use? Any version out performs any other program.
It's like not wanting a new BMW because you don't like the cigarette lighter. I'm sure I'll end up with the upgrade. I will probably wait for Illustrator and In Design though. If you go to the Russel Brown site and get some of the 'basic' training videos instead of fumbling around with CS3, like I've been doing for the last 2 months, you'll get some insight as to what some of the enhanced features are. Most are very good for illustration, maybe they'll add some more before the spring release.
As for the price, one job will pay for it. so that's not the issue. When I drive past a 'used car' lot and see a 5 year old vehicle with a price tag of $23,000, when it sold new for $23,000, now that's an issue.

 

[sPECtre]

Ronmatt, you should post on the official adobe forum, they do have a features request forum, where you can ask for new additions...

The name is still Photoshop, right?

 

[Lee]

I liked the changes/improvements when PS went from 7 to CS and then CS2 (and I bought the upgrades) but after downloading and trying the beta CS3 I think the jury is still out with me on that upgrade. Personality, I just didn't see any "must have" changes. I think this just might be the first time Adobe has upgraded Photoshop and I really didn't care about owning it. [shhh]

 

[ronmatt]

You are a photographer Lee, I'm not. So as to whether or not CS3 has been improved in the specific areas that benefit you as a photographer, I wouldn't know. As for some of the features that I, as an illustrator will use, there are some improvements. Non destructive layer effects is one in particular as well as some masking features. These two alone have the potential to save me hours on an illustration. For photographers, what more can they provide you guys aside from supplying a digital camera in the box? Still, as I said before, the jury's still out with me. It's 10 to 2 right now.

 

[sPECtre]

The two biggest time savers for all users will be the refine edge and the quick selection tool, it will be a must have!

 

[Gaussian]

They will save time, but with how many images?
Mind you, I think they?re doing a great job with simple images of good quality with a plain background (better than the old 1.x version of FluidMask), but reality is that there are very little images that have a background that is easy to remove, whether you use Photoshop, Knockout, FluidMask, etc.

I think they?re a useful addition to our ?remove-the-background-toolbox?, but nothing more than that.
To give you one example; any part of the image that needs to be extracted that has a straight or smooth curved line is in general a better candidate for the pen tool.

My best advice is always; use the proper tools (notice the S at the end).
The point I?m trying to make is this; an extraction can often be done faster and more accurate if you learn how to combine Photoshop tools and/or plug-ins.

Not long ago I extracted a person from a background;

- I used the pen tool for the shoulders and a part of the face and neck
- I used a mask for the upper part of the face
- I used FluidMask for the hair

Three tools might look like time consuming, yet the reality is that achieving the same clean extraction that looks good on both black or white backgrounds would have been very time consuming (if not impossible) if only a single solution of those 3 would have been used.

The other advice I want to give people; don?t discriminate tools. Photoshop?s extract tool that many seem to hate, FluidMask that several people complained about, the pen tool that many people find difficult to use?. each one has its strengths in particular areas. If you refuse to really understand how they work or refuse the use them, then you?re only going to make it yourself more difficult in the long run. Not a single extraction tool is or ever will be that perfect that it can remove any kind of background you throw at it.

 

[ronmatt]

No one will ever come up with a 100% effective extraction tool (s). The very nature of the procedure simply does not allow a tool to work. When you do come up with a sure fire way with one photo, the next photo is entirely different. After doing a thousand or more extractions you begin to figure out which technique will work and which one won't, on a case by case basis. I've had huge successes by creating greyscaled, contrasted positive and negative brushes from the image, at various levels of contrast.
I don't expect Adobe to come up with a 'push button' solution for this kind of thing. There still has to be some 'hands on' interaction for some things.
As for the items that make life a tad easier, I think Adobe has begun to scratch the surface in CS3. The palette arrangement and access is one. This really opens up the workspace. The speed is another ( it's much more responsive than CS2 ) One thing I would like to see would be a truley customizable workspace as offered in ZBrush 2. The ability to work in and output in a spot colorspace, black overprint ( 0-0-0-100 ) vector text. via preferance setting ( per In Design ).
And, of course, some sort of pseudo 3D shading.

 

[Gaussian]

Clipping layers for layer groups... :\

 

[MindBender]

Hot fudge dispenser.