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Ghost shoulders and head?


ex_teacher

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OK....I'll bite. How did those 'ghost shoulders/head' even happen? Its actually pretty eerie.

Is it an AI intelligent auto-fill feature in PS that went awry? I can't imagine a human cloning error so systematic, especially from Jeff.

Screen Shot 2022-10-03 at 10.52.42 AM.png
Screen Shot 2022-10-03 at 10.55.59 AM.png
 

IamSam

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Not sure!

We need to get Jeff's feedback and info on the technique he used.
 

JeffK

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It's a combination of AI and my lack of attention.

What I did was select the figure I want to remove, expand the selection by several pixels, then use Edit > Content Aware Fill and mask those areas that I want to pull the image fill from.

I've noticed that it seems to leave a trace outline of my selection even though I've expanded the selection. So what I have to do is go in with a healing brush and correct.

I tried to be careful on this one since I had problems before but my eyes just didn't see those spare lines left uncorrected. that Sam pointed out.

May be just be a matter of relying too much on the Intelligence part of AI... :)
 

IamSam

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I personally have never had great results with content aware fill, AI or AI assisted content aware fill tools............at least not on large areas needed to be cloned out. It's really hit and miss and usually has less than desirable results. It can get close at times, but almost always requires further work. I do use the Spot Healing Brush Tool a lot, but only for very small areas. It's very effective for correcting small clone doubled areas.

The tools are very popular for several reasons. Please note, I'm speaking generally and not taking aim at any one person. One is it's the "One Button fix" affect that it proposes. We live in a world were most everyone desires a one click fix. Doing the old true and tried ways are simply too time consuming to learn and employ. People want things "Right Now"!

Another, in close association with the first, is "to save time" and be the first person to post results! It's seems that it's a race to be the first one to post an edit! This has ALWAYS been a symptom of the free edit forum! I guess it's our own indwelling human competitive nature! Everyone does it...............don't say that you don't.............even I catch myself doing it at times. Remember, first is not the best! If it's worth doing right/correctly, do it right/correctly the first time. It's not a race!

Another, again in close association with the second, is not double checking the work. Before you offer up a final edit, take the time to closely inspect your work. Use the zoom function and take a careful look. On the other end of that stick, get up and stand back, then examine the work from afar. I often times will just walk away and when I come back I see things that I had not noticed before!

Yet another, as Jeff stated, is reliance on the tool to do the job. We forget that Ps is full of many tools to be utilized! The AI and content aware fill are only one tool in many! You can't build a house with one tool just as you can't edit an image with just one tool. These are the main tools I use for every similar edit. The Pen Tool, Clone Stamp Tool, Spot Healing Brush Tool, Brush Tool, and the Blur Tool. I use multiple layers for cloning so I can manip them individually if needed. I try not to put all my work on one layer.

Our society on whole runs on checks and balances. Without them, we may never know when we are not getting things done. As in this case, Jeff received positive reinforcement on his edit by the OP and he may have never known that he needed some follow up work. As a general rule of thumb, OP's have no idea what they are seeing or talking about. Always take their praise with a grain of salt (if that!). In this same category, people in general have forgotten how to ask questions. If you find that you are having trouble with certain techniques................ask for help!
 

thebestcpu

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One thing to consider is how sharp is the selection. Any feathering of the selection (depending on how the selection was created) can cause this issue.

One can always verify a selection by creating a Layer Mask from the selection and then Option / Alt click on the Layer Mack icon (pulls up the B&W Layer Mask to the screen and look if the edges are sharp or fuzzy. Fuzzy means a soft or feathered selection.

Just my quick though
John Wheeler
 

JeffK

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Another, in close association with the first, is "to save time" and be the first person to post results! It's seems that it's a race to be the first one to post an edit! This has ALWAYS been a symptom of the free edit forum! I guess it's our own indwelling human competitive nature! Everyone does it...............don't say that you don't.............even I catch myself doing it at times. Remember, first is not the best! If it's worth doing right/correctly, do it right/correctly the first time. It's not a race!
The free forum is primarily attended to by volunteers who give up their time - 20 minutes to 2 hours or more - to do their best editing on OP submissions. Although on many different experience and capability levels, putting in that much effort on a voluntary basis makes a simple like or a thank-you-comment highly valuable. So yes, it does add to the rush. In a sense, it's similar compensation to those on the paid forum although not in dollars but in positive response. It is no excuse for poor work and those are usually buried under proper edits. And those that supply them don't last long either.

I've learned Photoshop primarily on my own. I've taken some free workshops but those are usually marketing tools to get you to buy into a program. So I'm left to my own curiosity and sense of good work. Often I'll take the risk with a tool only to find it didn't work the way I expected or the way the OP or those putting me under a microscope expect or want. Risk is also a way of finding out what doesn't work and yes, being corrected is a good way to learn.

We can't blame the OP for that - they probably have gotten more than they expected and are quick to complement. But it's still our responsibility to do the best work possible.
Another, again in close association with the second, is not double checking the work. Before you offer up a final edit, take the time to closely inspect your work. Use the zoom function and take a careful look. On the other end of that stick, get up and stand back, then examine the work from afar. I often times will just walk away and when I come back I see things that I had not noticed before!

Excellent advice. My eyes get tired quickly and I learned to step away. Sometimes I have posted and after posting, I see the error and end up back at my PS file for some edits and reposting. It's a process that takes time and time we volunteer to learn a highly difficult, and often fussy, software program.
Yet another, as Jeff stated, is reliance on the tool to do the job. We forget that Ps is full of many tools to be utilized! The AI and content aware fill are only one tool in many! You can't build a house with one tool just as you can't edit an image with just one tool. These are the main tools I use for every similar edit. The Pen Tool, Clone Stamp Tool, Spot Healing Brush Tool, Brush Tool, and the Blur Tool. I use multiple layers for cloning so I can manip them individually if needed. I try not to put all my work on one layer.
I try my best to use the appropriate tool. What I've learned is that AI is not foolproof and needs some additional cleaning up. There are tools that I do depend on and as time goes by, and the more work I do, I learn more about how to use them with the greatest advantage. I don't believe in old ways or new ways - on;y the way that works for the particular problem I'm trying to solve.
Our society on whole runs on checks and balances. Without them, we may never know when we are not getting things done. As in this case, Jeff received positive reinforcement on his edit by the OP and he may have never known that he needed some follow up work. As a general rule of thumb, OP's have no idea what they are seeing or talking about. Always take their praise with a grain of salt (if that!). In this same category, people in general have forgotten how to ask questions. If you find that you are having trouble with certain techniques................ask for help!
I disagree with the first part of the statement - our society runs on speed and convenience. Oddly the software we use has helped to create that atmosphere and the YouTube tutors have pushed that message finding the best images to work with the tools they teaching. The world ain't that perfect so we find and learn by trying. It's not failure - it's finding out what doesn't work. And sometimes that happens publicly.

Blaming it on the OP is unfair. They may not understand what they're asking for - or even understand the amount of work that goes into it - but if we on this forum take on the responsibility of editing, then we also have the responsibility to understand what they want in the end. And yes, that means questions. You can't expect the OPs to understand what they're asking - they don't understand the software or what the capabilities are. That's our job if you want to call it that.

I will say, although I rely on what lessons I can find online, the past few years I've been on here I've had the pleasure of being taught by the creative members of this forum. Sometimes just seeing what can be done better or differently pushes me to do more and do better. Allow me to thank you all for those lessons.

These are my humble opinions only - may be different a year from now when I've had the opportunity to learn even more. :)

- Jeff
 

IamSam

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Jeff, thanks for your post and your views and opinions are always welcome and appreciated!

I just had a couple of responses just to clear up some possible misunderstandings.

The free forum is primarily attended to by volunteers who give up their time - 20 minutes to 2 hours or more - to do their best editing on OP submissions.
Just a quick reminder. The free edit forum does not require volunteers. The free edit forum is not now nor has it ever been a service provided by this forum and there is no commitment or responsibility required. The free edit forum (as well as the paid) was initially established as a learning experience to introduce novice designers to the ideas, concepts, and techniques of working with "clients" and the tools required (Ps) for the (possible) rigorous demands of completing a request/project. Any member who contributes to the free edit forum is less of a volunteer and more of a willing participant.

I disagree with the first part of the statement - our society runs on speed and convenience.
I get your point, but there's nothing here to disagree with. The two are not comparable in this context. While we have speed and convenience we also have checks and balance. Homeostasis.

Blaming it on the OP is unfair.
I feel you have missed my point. It's not blame as much as it is ignorance. And just to reiterate, my point was more about the OP's unknowingly giving positive reinforcement for work that may need corrections. I'm not blaming them at all, they simply don't know what they are looking at. I agree with your assessment on understanding.
 

JeffK

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One thing to consider is how sharp is the selection. Any feathering of the selection (depending on how the selection was created) can cause this issue.

One can always verify a selection by creating a Layer Mask from the selection and then Option / Alt click on the Layer Mack icon (pulls up the B&W Layer Mask to the screen and look if the edges are sharp or fuzzy. Fuzzy means a soft or feathered selection.

Just my quick though
John Wheeler
Appreciate the tip John. In this case, using the Edit > Content Aware Fill, I always expand the selection to avoid outlines. But playing with the image again, I didn't expand that selection enough so that's why the outline showed up. With problems in the past, I usually go over the area and use the healing brush tool to clean up any outline. But on this particular one, I didn't look close enough. There is no feather to worry about with this tool - just lack of attention. :)
 

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