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Zeealex

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so today, I sat at the PC for a little bit of Zbrush practice, I ended up playing around with the idea of doing a very quick study of a male head...

This was the outcome after roughly an hour and a half

male_head_study_by_zeealex-d985a61.jpg

rather than enter into any more detail an lock the PC up (I need more RAM) I decided to take the screenshot to photoshop and post process it there:

male_head_study_colour_by_zeealex-d9859vh.jpg

not entirely sure what to think, what say you guys?


(do excuse the weird proportions, it's in zbrush's version of orthographic view)
 

Zeealex

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You know what? I'm not posting any more 3D work, I'm either verbally abused or ignored, or maybe the odd pity response its doing nothing for my confidence.
 

MrToM

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I'm watching...:thumbsup:...

...I just don't really know much about 'organic' modeling so couldn't say if its good bad or indifferent.

If its critique you're after then a forum for 'Photoshop' users probably isn't the best place to ask.
Have you posted on CGTalk or some other 3D related forum?

Perhaps posting to like minded people would be better, although that shouldn't stop you also posting here too.....just don't expect a tidal wave of responses.....there is only me and maybe one or two other members that would fully appreciate just what it is you are doing.

Hang in there....but keep in mind where you are posting.

Regards.
MrToM.
 

Zeealex

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Thank you for watching Tom, it's something at least.

I know it's a Photoshop forum and they're not 3D centric, it's part of the reason why I try to keep my jargon on the down low, but what I'm asking for is no different than giving critique on a sketch, certainly in Zbrush.

examples of what guidance I would like to hear here:
"it could do with a little more of this"
"his mouth might need to be widened"
"a few more scratches on the armour would look cool"
"how about some edge wear or some weld lines?"
"maybe put it in [insert setting] it might look more at home there"

I'm not so much asking for anything that people wouldn't know about, but that is a bonus
examples:
"those edge flows aren't exactly right, retopologize it with the edge flows going this way [insert diagram]"
"don't use a boolean operation on that model, just chamfer the verts at the intersection of those edges"
"that extrusion needs more supporting geometry"
"that normal map's green channel looks inverted"

it's not hard for people to do the former example above, just because someone can't draw, does that stop them from giving guidance on a drawing?

The primary reason why I don't go to those forums is I'm too afraid, my confidence is at rock bottom and I'm not sure how they would react if they saw my models.
 
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dv8_fx

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The primary reason why I don't go to those forums is I'm too afraid, my confidence is at rock bottom and I'm not sure how they would react if they saw my models.

I just got to see this today as my mind was preoccupied with other stuff around here in the past day..... :cheesygrin: .

In a way, MrT has a point.... not everyone here does 3D and even I don't delve much into it nowadays except if it's an architectural-related work I have. But that may not mean that viewers of this thread may not be interested. It's just that they don't know what to say most especially if it's something out of their comfort zone and expertise. There may be others here who do 3d but on a graphics design related level and not modelling like the way you do.

As a photoshop forum, I'm certain that members here can help in terms of color coordination, shape, details, texture improvements, lighting perhaps or even in the initial rough drawn sketches or way you present your stuff. But also give the viewers time to digest and comprehend what you are trying to achieve in something that's in unfamiliar territory.

Don't be discouraged. Don't forget... your initial post was introducing a new WIP. Bear in mind what I've just said above and keep tweaking on it and post your updates. Maybe then , someone will have something to say in terms of the before and after improvements in what you're doing.


Did I not tell you in another thread of yours that you have promise as a gifted 3D modeller? Believe in what you're doing and in the development of your skills that brought you this far.....
 

Zeealex

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Oh I totally agree with both you and Mr T, 100% it is a photoshop forum, and not many people have hands on experience with 3D software, we're one of the less common breeds of digital artist, so it's understandable.

but as I've said above when I post; here, I'm not much wanting or expecting in depth analysis, even though, in depth analysis from you or MrTom is the golden nugget, I'm more so wanting ideas of what to do next, like what type of clothing/armour do I give the guy, fantasy/historic? Modern? Sci-fi?

so I suppose I would really like people to just look at it as a bare bones sketch, a 2D image which is in need of ideas, comments, thoughts, don't see it so much as a 3D model, even though it is, take the platform used to create the work away from the work and focus on what you see. what is good, what needs improving from an artist's point of view

those with 3D knowhow can ask for wireframes, do in depth analysis of edge flows, and mesh integrity, rendering platform, etc etc, I normally ask the gentlemen in the group I do models for, for in depth analysis of edge flows, more so if it's going into a game.

I ask for critiques here from a purely artistic side of things.

are you following?

I'll try one more thread, and I'll include a more telling idea of what sort of advisory I wish for.

as for my confidence, it almost always is at rock bottom, when I get raised up by comments like that I have promise as a modeller, it really raises me up though :)
 
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dv8_fx

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I ask for critiques here from a purely artistic side of things.
Understood. Which is why its better to clarify what it is you want to hear or know. A broad, open ended question can garner varying interpretation and may make readers hesitate on what to say. Unlike a specific one that can get a specific answer....
 

IamSam

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Like others, I have watched your threads. I also have no experience with 3D modeling. But I understand now what your needing in the way of feedback.

First, the scars are a bit off to me.

They appear to be straight. They would follow the contours of the anatomy on which they're drawn.
The lips.....
Screen Shot 2015-09-04 at 8.18.00 AM.png

The nose....
Screen Shot 2015-09-04 at 8.20.58 AM.png

Second, would be the eyes. They will require much more detail. But this is where my ignorance of 3D modeling would come into play, because I don't know what level of detail you capable of accomplishing.
 

Zeealex

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Hmm, thanks for those suggestions Sam, I'll take a look at the scars and distort them a bit, the odd thing is they are part of the geometry itself, but I'll probably end up re doing the scars anyway, I accidentally removed the top of the nose scar editing the brows.

They eyes, as in the eyeballs? if so, yes, they would need a LOT more detail, because they don't exist XD I normally add them in at a later stage.

thanks sam!
 

Zeealex

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tweaked the model, added skin pores, veins and some slight wrinkling around the eyes and lips... as well as adding a very rough base for some hair:

male_head_hair.jpg

male_head_hair_2.jpg
 

Paul

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It's not working at all in Photoshop for you bud, it gets further away from reality the more you apply hair effects if i am honest.
The 'veins' all though a nice touch look more like a cracked ice texture than human veins, keep at it i am sure you will get to the end eventually:thumbsup:
 

Zeealex

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It's not working at all in Photoshop for you bud, it gets further away from reality the more you apply hair effects if i am honest.
The 'veins' all though a nice touch look more like a cracked ice texture than human veins, keep at it i am sure you will get to the end eventually:thumbsup:
this new edit was done fully in zbrush, and who said it was to be realistic? it was just a simple study of the male head shape that, if you didn't already see, is a work in progress, so of course it will look **** for the first few iterations. and the veins look nowhere near cracked ice at all, AND it won't look dead on because it's just a blank model with no texture, certain colour and texture effects that i normally add on to the map aren't present
but of course saying things like "it gets further from reality the more you apply effects to it" sounds almost like you're willing me to give up... not going to happen FYI.

and it's easy to post a link to a tutorial without fully knowing what going on, I'm not making an old man, and I'm not looking at a full body set right now, most of the information in there is tailored to that specific mesh.
 

Steve

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Hi Zee.
I don't know anything about 3D modeling so I don't know how to critique something like this, so let me ask you a question.
What's your ultimate goal with this piece of work?
Are you shooting for photo realistic?
 

dv8_fx

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He still looks like a rugged character - like a member of The Expendables.... SO far the bust is coming along nicely but the lower lips... creases too exaggerated?.

I tried Z-brush a long time ago but never caught on with it. But if I'm not mistaken with newer versions, the skin materials/textures render tend to come out a bit too coarse as if the pores are exaggerated or prominent? Or are the settings (if there are) you used not fine tuned yet?

The hair materials on Zbrush aren't to my liking compared to Poser or DazStudio..... but then these aren't modelling apps ....
 

Zeealex

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Hi Zee.
I don't know anything about 3D modeling so I don't know how to critique something like this, so let me ask you a question.
What's your ultimate goal with this piece of work?
Are you shooting for photo realistic?
The final target is something believable, not neceasarily photorealistic, just realistic enough.
dv8_fx he's meant to look like a rugged guy, so i'm pleased to hear that XD

Zbrush, in my honest opinion, has great potential, but its so cumbersome and annoying to use,the pan, zoom and orbit modes are mapped to the strangest combinations ever, I tru to draw on the edge of the model an it orbits around, its so annoying!

I've not used an older version so I wouldnt know if the shaders have changed, but I think the shader is probably deliberately like that to allow people to see cavities better.

But yeah, I agree pips are a little exaggerated, does anyone else think the eyes are too high?
 

Paul

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You really need to go back to basics when drawing human faces, the nose is way to big for that face eyes are to high up and wonky looking the hair well lets say this the last time i looked at hair like that it was singing in Las Vegas, heres a link to help you understand human facial proportions better http://thevirtualinstructor.com/facialproportions.html
 

dv8_fx

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You really need to go back to basics when drawing human faces, the nose is way to big for that face eyes are to high up and wonky looking the hair well lets say this the last time i looked at hair like that it was singing in Las Vegas, heres a link to help you understand human facial proportions better http://thevirtualinstructor.com/facialproportions.html
I might be wrong with how Zee worked on this model study but she could have been using a preset or imported 3D model and "morphed" using the brushes. It's like using a mask in PS - black hides while white reveals - but in ZBrush, it's adds or subtracts from the object's polygons to create the features and shape.

Or she could have used a simple sphere and created the features by adding more "ZSpheres" and sculpting them until the basic shape of the head is achieved. The The brushes or pen tools are similar to PS tools but with it's own alpha channels which apply shape to the "stroke". These can be customized as well . It's like using clay putty in cyberspace and can be cumbersome to work with and master in the same manner that the PS Pentool can be daunting to use.

Yes, one needs to know human anatomy to get it right but not necessarily. Most game characters look anatomically weird.... lol.
Zeealex... But it might come in handy to know a bit of the human form most especially if you decide to delve into advanced anatomically correct sculpturing.....
 

Zeealex

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I used a dynamesh sphere and the form soft tool.

I dont necessarily think the nose is too big, that could easily be the perspective view but every time I look at it i'm drawn straight to the eyes, I think they are either too small or too high or both.

Paul, drop the "it looks like [insert silly remark here]" comments its very demoralising and totally unnecessary, i've not played around much with fibermesh before, so i'm unsure of how to tame it down.

Right now i'm not thinking about anatomically advanced sculprting, simply because zbrush is THAT annoying, i've yelded better and more optimized results in 3Ds max with Photoshop to hand paint the sculpted detail
 
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