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Monitor calibration for Printing


Steve

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I don't normally have much of an problem getting the screen and printer output very close. to each other.
Now I have a few images with lots of reds and I'm having a real problem.

I calibrate my Dell SP2208WFP with a GretagMcbeth eye-one display LT.
I've always used 6500° as a white point setting and a gamma setting of 2.2
Right or wrong it gave me acceptable results.

With the problems I'm having with these reddish images I did some research and I've read 5000° and 1.8 are better settings when calibrating for print.
I tried that and don't see a difference.

So the question is what are the proper settings when calibrating for printed output?

Here's an example of the difference I'm getting.
The smaller image is a photograph of the print, the larger image is a screen dump from PS.
The exact colors aren't dead on to what I'm dealing with, with but the differences accurately show the problem I'm having.

YS.jpg

Print settings are right.
PS handles Colors.
All printer colors enhancements are disabled.
PS and printer are set to the same paper

Any ideas what's wrong or what I'm doing wrong?
 

Tom Mann

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Hey, Steve -

I know I'm stating the obvious, but there really are only 4 possible reasons for this problem, and there is really no alternative except to go through them one-by-one:

A) In spite of calibrating your monitor a couple of different ways, the calibration is still off;

B) Your monitor is fine, but the problem arises when sending an image to the printer;

C) It's a combination of (A) and (B); or,

D) It's some oddball problem not directly involving the computer, eg, ambient light, viewing angle, your eyes, the phase of the moon ... something.


POSSIBILITY A)

The only "real" way to tell if your monitor is well-calibrated is to put a monitor that is known to be well-calibrated right next to yours and see if there is any major difference between the two. Most people are not in a situation to do this. If you try to compare monitors without them being literally next to each other (eg, display the same file on a good PS system at work, or on some other monitor that your trust), it's just not a good enough comparison. Not only can the lighting be different at two locations, people's perception and memory of tones and colors are often surprisingly in error, and, even then, you still have to verify that the 2nd system is indeed also displaying images correctly.

However, don't give up yet, there is a quick way to see if your monitor calibration is in the ballpark.


POSSIBILITY B)

The only "real" way to tell if the printer output side of your workflow is working correctly is to have the combination of your particular printer, a particular paper, and a particular inkset profiled. I haven't checked the prices recently, but I think you should be able to get one of the printer profiling services to do this for you for under $40 USD. When you get their icm file back in the mail, swap it for your current printer profile and see if this solves the problem.

POSSIBILITY C) and POSSIBILITY (D)

Lets sort out (A) and (B) before we talk about (C) and (D).


After years of helping people try to make a quick determination what's causing this sort of problem in their system, I have a very unorthodox method: I simply send you a set of sRGB images that I know have reasonably good color. First, you quickly go through all of them using your monitor and note how each one looks, ie, too bright, too dark, too contrasty, too saturated, too red, whatever..

All of these images contain what I call "memory colors", ie, colors that typically don't vary by very much, eg, skin tones (of various races) under mid-day or studio lighting, a summer blue sky with puffy white clouds, etc.

You then send me back your notes on each image, and I'll see how your view of them compares to my view of them. We don't agree in the majority of cases, there's a good chance it's your monitor calibration. Now, of course, I'm arrogantly assuming that my monitor is well calibrated. All I can say is that thusfar, I haven't had any complaints, comments from other photographers, discrepancies with prints I have had made, etc.

The next thing you do is, with your normal print settings, put these images on a couple of contact sheets and print them. I know that they all print reasonably well. If your prints are, on average, too dark or too "anything", you know you have a problem with your printing system / calibration.

If you would like me to send this set to you, send me your email address and I'll pass them along. I think that the entire set, when zipped, is just under 20 megs.

This eyeball based method is far from scientific, but it's a really quick and painless way to get a quick read on your system.


Tom
 
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ALB68

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Fantastic Tom! Couldn't have said it better myself :cheesygrin: (not at all actually)
 

Steve

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Thanks Tom.
Your Possibility (A) was all I needed to start thinking in a different direction.
A miscalibrated monitor was the only thing I ruled out because I calibrate monthly with a name brand colorimeter.

I also have a laptop I bought specifically with photo editing in mind, 16GB memory, external graphics card, etc.

I put them side by side and calibrated them both the say way.
The were both the same, I didn't need to load an image to see that.

Then I went to the Windows calibration tool and re-calibrated, it couldn't have been more different.
I opened the image in Photoshop and the colors were virtually identical, a little contrast issue but I can adjust the monitor for that.

I'll try the older version of the software that came with the i1 but I don't think it will make a difference.
It seems the i1 is the problem.

Thanks again.
 

Hoogle

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dont have time to read all above but are you sure it is software related and not maybe a printer issue sometimes if you are not getting 100 flow of say cyan ink then images will come out redder than normal etc.

I know it can be expensive to do as it uses a loit of ink but if you are sure your settings are correct and calibrated then it could be an ink flow problem or a faulty cartridge. this is often seen with people who use cheaper alternative cartrideges or "recycled" maybe print of a color swatch and see which colors are having the issue and that may narrow it down more.
 

Steve

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Just when I got everything straightened out and I got a good match with my monitor, printer, and my preferred paper, I found Canon Photo Rag has been discontinued.
Now I'm trying out new papers.
I bought a Discovery Pack of Canson Infinity paper, downloaded the ICC profiles, and Canon's instructions on all the settings.

So far I'm not impressed.
I'm renting a X-Rite ColorMunki next week and I'll see what the results are.

@Hoogle, I've cleaned the nozzles and aligned the print heads several time.
 

Tom Mann

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Steve, FWIW, I've been using a Color Munki for about 4 years now, and couldn't be happier with the results.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Tom
 

ALB68

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Steve,
check out Red River papers. Lots of choices, ICC profiles too. I am printing my posters on their Afan natural on a Canon Pro 100. They may have something you like. They are in Texas and ship rapidly.http://www.redrivercatalog.com/?utm....0&utm_referrer=http://www.redriverpaper.com/
I like this, nice paper http://www.redrivercatalog.com/browse/auroranatural.html
Just when I got everything straightened out and I got a good match with my monitor, printer, and my preferred paper, I found Canon Photo Rag has been discontinued.
Now I'm trying out new papers.
I bought a Discovery Pack of Canson Infinity paper, downloaded the ICC profiles, and Canon's instructions on all the settings.

So far I'm not impressed.
I'm renting a X-Rite ColorMunki next week and I'll see what the results are.

@Hoogle, I've cleaned the nozzles and aligned the print heads several time.
 
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ALB68

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Steve,
Question for you. In your Pixma 9000 print driver, you and I both set for Photoshop to manage color. A caution comes up saying to Disable the color management in the printer. Do you do that? I can't find anything that says Disable Color Management anywhere in the driver windows. Mine is a Pixma Pro 100.
 

Steve

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A caution comes up saying to Disable the color management in the printer. Do you do that?
Yes I do.
I think the problem I'm having with the Canson Infinity papers is there are no profiles for the 9000 so I'm using the 9000 MarkII profiles which may or may not be good for both not that it matters at this point.
Red River does have profiles for my printer so I ordered a sample pack, thanks for the idea.
 

ALB68

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Glad I could help. That's what we're all about is helping each other. Let us know if you like their paper. I've used all kinds of stuff over the years with my Canon IPF8000 as well as the smaller desktops and I like this the best. I bought some from them a few days ago to make some brochures and they turned out really nice, it was their Zeppelin Semi Gloss, feels just like a high end magazine paper. The color is great with this 8 color printer and their profiles.
Yes I do.
I think the problem I'm having with the Canson Infinity papers is there are no profiles for the 9000 so I'm using the 9000 MarkII profiles which may or may not be good for both not that it matters at this point.
Red River does have profiles for my printer so I ordered a sample pack, thanks for the idea.
 

Steve

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I got the sample pack from Red River yesterday and the ColorMunki is coming on 08/12/13.

I did a little test today with my i1 that showed me how out of whack it is.
I did an ambient light reading and the i1 measured the light at around 3000K but I'm using a
PHILIPS TL 950 - T8, 5000 Kelvin, 98 CRI Full Spectrum Fluorescent Lamp in the office when I do photo editing.

 

Steve

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I gave up on my i1 Display a while ago and used the Win7 utility before the ColorMunki arrived.

I used a photo of my Kodak Color Control Patches, and Gray Scale cards.
Used a custom white balance and manual metered off a Kodak Gray card.
I taped the Color card over the top of the monitor, opened the image and adjusted the colors, brightness and contrast.
Then I printed it out, very very close just by eye.

I got the ColorMunki yesterday and calibrated my monitor and one of my laptops.
Just started playing with a sample pack of Red River papers.

@Larry 12 different paper types so I assume Aurora Art Natural is one of them.

I cut the paper down and I'm printing the same image as an 8X10 on all papers looking for the best result, best paper for me.
Life was easier before Canon cancelled my favorite paper.
 

ALB68

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Surely the paper has some sort of I'd. Let us know if you like it and which. Sounds like your about to get it sorted out.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
 

Steve

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I finished my tests and I just ordered a box of Arctic Polar Satin.
The Aurora Art Natural and Linen gave me a slight green tint but all the RR papers were at least as good as the Photo Paper Pro II I also have.
The Photo Paper Pro II gives my a slight red tint in the whites.

None of these tints were really noticeable until I did a side by side with the Arctic Polar Satin.
Nice paper and much less expensive than Canon Paper.

Thanks for the recommendation Larry.
 

ALB68

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Steve,
I'll try some of the Arctic White. I like the natural look of the Aurora and will continue to use it too. They have a new paper that simulates a canvas surface and I am thinking of trying that on some of my posters. Seems like they are a pretty good outfit. Glad I was able to help.
 

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