photoshop performing extremly slow?? help please

[grandad]

hi there...i am new to this board and i have to say after looking thru some threads it seems very freindly and helpfull..

i am sorry to make this my first post but it is a problem that has been bothering me for some time..

ok onto the problem..

i use version 6.01
i have the primary scratch disk set to my mian drive ...c 6 gig free
then set to my other drives d..(partition) 16 gig
e..(secondary drive) ...18 gig

amount of ram was set to 85 % (then moved back to 50%)
i have also tried using the other drives for my first scratch disk..

everything seems to take ages to do even the smallest of things
i thought it may have been the size of the image i was using but even smaller ones (20 meg) things are very slow..
i have formatted ...reinstalled (twice) and ran photoshop without any other program installed ...still the same..
i have defragged all drives and partitions..

i used to have a p3 550 that ran better than my current system ...

which is...

windows xp pro

amd 1600+ o/c 1800+
640 meg pc 133
30 gig 7200 rpm
40 gig 5400 rpm

any help / tips ect would be greatly appreciated

thank you
grandad

[Erik]

"You currently have Adobe Photoshop's primary scratch and Windows' primary paging file on the same volume, which can result in reduced performance, it is recommended that you set Adobe's primary scratch volume to be on a different volume, preferably on a different physical drive".

This is the message you get when installing Photoshop.


Scratch files are empty spaces on Hard Disk Drives on which PS can write info withwhich it is working.These free spaces have to be in one block, and if they are on the same partition as Win (for example, and most probably C) you're in trouble because when Win is active it writes on the drive in a very chaotic way, blocking PS's work.
And the more your Cdrive is filled, or the more progs you have running (in the background or not), the greater the probability of crashes or slower workflow.

I'm not familiar with XPPro, but I guess it's something like my Win2KPro.
So I have a few questions for you:

1/ Do you work with several layers? because if you have say 5 layers with 20MB each, there is some calculation to do...and if you say that 20MB is a small file fro you, how much is then a normal one?
2/ The first scratch file should be on your second HDD. That it's "only" 5400 rpm is no issue as the access and write time for this speed is quicker that that of a 7200rpm HDD. (the speed difference is mainly important for movies etc). But it should also be in one block. Did you try to run defrag?
3/ How many progs do you have running at the same time?
4/ How many progs have you running in the background? (Because Resources are no RAM). See the task manager (Ctrl+Alt+Del in Win 2K)
5/ Where is your Win scratch file?
6/ Is this only a problem of Photoshop or are the other apps suffering too?
7/ What videocard do you use?
8/ How many RAM does your mainboard support? What brand of mem did you buy, or is it bulk, ie nameless? How come you have 640? Did you try to do it with 512 and take the 128 out? Just an idea...
9/ Why overclock a processor that already runs like a Ferrari but produces heat like some supernova? AMD is known for its overheating...if you're a gamer who changes PC like someone else changes shirts, then I can understand, but for normal use overclocking will only shorten the life of your processor. The differences in actual speed-gain will be minimal.

And finally: what do you call slow? What are you expecting? A 1600 is not twice as fast as a 800.

Just some thoughts and questions that enter my mind, and that give an idea how I would try to tackle the problem.

[kiwi]

Thats great stuff Erik


Grandad would an example be for instance painting a brush stroke and their being a time lapse before you see the stroke appear on your image?



Stu.

[grandad]

hello..firstly thank you for the replies...

to answer some of your questions Erik...

i have had the windows swap file running on c drive an the primary scratch disk on my d drive (5400)...it made no difference..i have set my windows swap file to min 600 meg - max 600 meg (as suggested by a freind)

i have tried to minimize the programs running in the background...ctrl alt del...as i said earlier ...i have reformated reinstalled ONLY photoshop and ran it with the same results...slow

yes sometimes i do run with a few layers open...

the file sizes vary.. one particular file i was working on was 300 meg..

i am not a guru with photoshop by any means i am only a newbie to this extensive program..we bought a new printer (epson 870) and scanner (hp 4400c)..an i am trying to figure out the best resolutoins to scan and print in..(reading thru tutorials ect)

yes this is the only program that runs slow..

i have a pixelview geforce 2 ti 64 meg video card

as for the ram...my motherboard is a msi k7t turbo -r limited edition it supports upto 1.5 gig...the ram is noname...i have tested the ram using a program called memtest 32 one stick of 256 is according to memtest defective...i have taken it back an had it replaced (twice) stil says its defective...after searching for answers it seems that some ram dont like the amd cpu's...yes i have removed the defecive ram swapped the ram to other slots and run photoshop...to be honest i did not notice any diffrence

my amd cpu does not run hot at 1800+ it is still below 48 deg cel..i just like the idea of getting more speed from it ..
i have also put the cpu back to its default speed and ran photoshop no change

as for the expectations of speed difference...i would have thought i would see a very noticable speed difference between a intel p3 550 and an amd 1600+...i know that intel will perfom complex calculations a lot faster and better than amd but i dont think its to this extent

i call slow having to wait some 30 secs or more to open a file...ect...

kiwi...yes it is slow between the stroke an actually apllying it
some plugins i use are extremly slow...what used to take the blink of an eye now takes a cat nap ....

i realise very big files will take time to calculate ect but the small ones do to



are there any setup tutorials ect i can look at ...i just want to get the best performance from photoshop... i am happy to try any suggestions that are put forward ie: changing windows settings an or photoshop settings

is it better to alocate 85% of my ram to photoshop? or should i leave it at the default?.i normaly only have photoshop running and no other program...apart from what windows needs to run in the background

thank you both again for replying i appreciate it very much
grandad

[grandad]

i have a few more results ...
as i said earlier ..i am not to savvy when it comes to this techy stuff ..so hopefully somone can make some sense of this...


i have scanned a photo it is at 1200 dpi...in explorer it says its 11,745 kb when i hold the mouse over the file ...it says dimensions...9400 x 11784...in photoshop (it takes ages to open the file)...at the bottom you have the stats bar when i set it at...document sizes it reads...317M/317M..set to scratch disks it reads...470.2M/508.9......set to efficiencey it reads eff 42%

i have also opened windows task manager...
it reads...
TOTALS...
handles 5548
threads 285
processes 24

COMMIT CHARGE (K)
total 643072
limit 5532536
peak 652240

PHYSICAL MEMORY..
total 654832
available 21436
system cache 45864

KERNEL MEMORY...
total 38616
paged 15544
non pages 23004


hope this info helps

grandad

[{OZ}]

Hi gandad.. I found this... hope it helps

http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/277aa.htm

[kiwi]

I am wondering if you have a temp file that is not being erased on quitting Photoshop Grandad.I use a Mac so I dont know where the file would be stored,but if it was not being erased that might explain some of the problems as your memory would be being sufficently drained to cause a slow down.


Stu.

[grandad]

hello there...

OZ ...i had a look at that site most of what is there i have done....
i will try a few more suggestions that are there though ...thank you..

KIWI..i have checked the folders i know of under xp...
DDocuments and Settings\grandad1\Local Settings\Temp

DDocuments and Settings\Default User\Local Settings\Temp

DWINDOWS\Temp

cant find any adobe temp files or folders...nothing that is very large...

this is starting to get to me lol ...

thanx again for your time

grandad

[Erik]

i have scanned a photo it is at 1200 dpi...in explorer it says its 11,745 kb when i hold the mouse over the file ...it says dimensions...9400 x 11784...in photoshop (it takes ages to open the file)...at the bottom you have the stats bar when i set it at...document sizes it reads...317M/317M..set to scratch disks it reads...470.2M/508.9......set to efficiencey it reads eff 42%

If your image is 9400x11784, we know that:
1/ by dividing by 1200 how big it really is: 7,83x9,79 inch
2/ by multiplying both sizes how big one channel is (some 110MB) and because in RGB we have three channels, its size must be some 330MB. If you're in CMYK, it would be some440MB. Because PS shows some 310MB, I assume you are in RGB mode.

It is perfectly normal that a file size like this is slower, and that any action you undertake will even be risky. If you add one layer-PS treats every layer as a separate image- you end up with 620 MB, so there's no room for Windows. Windows prevents this action to safeguard your entire system, result: PS writes to the HDD, and this slows everything down as the data aren't stored in RAM anymore. OK?

Now the painful question: why 1200?????
I can only see one reason, the one I use these high settings for, and that is to use your scanner as a sort of microscope.
But neither for the Web (only the sizes, height and width count) nor for Print or even for printing to film (transparancies, negatives) you ever need 1200.
For your inkjet printer, scanning at 150 samples per inch and sending to the printer in RGB (the printer does the CMYK conversion in its own software) is perfect. And laser printers require even less. For a real offset printing press, you need 220 to 300 (300 is softer tha 220)...

So why 1200?

i have also opened windows task manager...
it reads...
TOTALS...
handles 5548
threads 285
processes 24
24 processes eat up your systems resources. try to take some out

PHYSICAL MEMORY..
total 654832
available 21436
system cache 45864
You only have 21MB of RAM left. The rest goes to HDD

set to scratch disks it reads...470.2M/508.9
this means that470MB RAM is used by the open image and that there are 508MB RAM available. (see your manual at p.79!)
This leaves you a meagre 38MB to play with...

......set to efficiency it reads eff 42% . on p. 79 of your manual you can find that if this % is less than 100, PS writes to scratch disk which reduces the speed of calculation.

Be logical: Win XP is RAM hungry, and PS is so too. XP has to be content with some 130MB if you have nothing else opened.
Leaves you 508MB. Then your scan uses 470MB RAM. Leaves you 38 RAM. Your efficiency is 42%. And then you ask why Photoshop slows down?

Hope this helps...

[grandad]

hi there...

Erik thank you for replying again..

the reason i scanned at 1200 dpi was because we (granny and i)..dont know the correct dpi to scan images and we were experimenting..i know that if i want to scan an image that is say
4x4 inches ...and i want to print it at 10x8 inches...it is better to scan at a high resolutoin...is that correct?

i have also in the meantime read some articles on scanning...i realise that an image that size will cause photoshop to run slowly ...

but its slow even with smaller images ...10 meg 30 meg ect...

i am going to un-install photoshop an install it again after i delete some programs ect i dont really need or want...then i am going to try some different windows settings ect ..hopefully i will be able to get it to run at a satisfactory speed..

i thank you and everyone else for your patience and suggestions trying to help me figure this out..

hopefully i will be able to contribute next time ..(in my own small way)

thanx again
grandad