How can I use a SPECIFIC font(s) with XHTML or .CSS

**Wait** · 02-20-2005, 03:15 AM

Whoa, I've been gone a long while. I'm happy to say that I'm back in action and more motivated than ever before. I've come to the realization that my current job is not the carrier path I want to continue on. So with that said; back to the web for more answers to my many questions.

My questions have to deal with formatting of text using XHTML or CSS. \:] [list]Can I us a specific font such as ?OCR A Extended? or some other random font that may not be associated with most computers?

Could I install a font pack on my server and access it through a .CSS? This way if the end user doesn?t have the font on their machine it will still be displayed?[/list:u]
Thx again,
-Joe

**theKeeper** · 02-21-2005, 02:31 PM

Hey Joe...

As to question #1: Yes. Just assign it using the standard CSS methods; either in a specific .class or within the body {} section. This will not however guarantee a user will see this font on the page, if they don't have it installed.

As to question #2: No. Not that i'm aware of. The downloading/usage of specialized fonts is a browser/user pref i believe. Not something you can force on people.

Anyone else know anything about this subject?

**Joy Foraker** · 02-21-2005, 11:41 PM

Hi Joe - I remember you --Welcome back and I remember some of your photos were really wonderful. Hope you stay longer this time.

Well I've never used before but I've read about it. The good CSS book sez You can embed a font on a page for viewer to use. One of the latest features to be added to style sheets is the ability to embed a font on a page and have it downloaded to the visitors system, just like a image.

Type @font-face{font-family; ".
type the full name of the font that you wish to embed.

Type ";src:url
(type the url of the font.
Type )}

Naturally be sure the font is loaded where you are pointing. 8}

Let us know if it works for you! and if its cross browser.

**tfoster** · 02-22-2005, 03:02 PM

If that's true that's great-but it raises a question in my mind.
Do you know how the font is downloaded? In other words, does it become a font like any other font that's installed on the user's system-did they now just get a font for free? If so, isn't that potential piracy?
Or is the font utilized in some way so that it isn't further available to the end user? (how?)
If it is somehow interpreted by the browser on the fly and displayed on that page only (and then "deleted"), is that something that only a limited number of newer browsers would be able to do? (how new?)

Optimistic but cautious--!
Tim

**Joy Foraker** · 02-22-2005, 05:58 PM

Ahaaa good question. I had this item noted in my CSS files incase I ever needed it. It did show an example of the font being used in the text just like one would specify using HTML. The viewer doesn't get free fonts, unless he reads the source code and downloads it.

I think to answer your other questions, go to:
www.microsoft.com/typography/web/embedding/weft/ if that site is no longer up (MS really moves things around) just search around on MS for "CSS embedded fonts". In the beginning you had to convert your installed fonts into .eot format using a program called WEFT. I think CSS was dramatically changed and expanded after this publication so I would encourage you do a search on a current CSS info site.

My source for the original info was a book called: HTML by Elizabeth Castro, PeachPit press.

I have heard of ways to put fonts on servers in html also but I always try to stay away from putting anything on a server I don't control.

I'll search too, maybe between us, the answer will materialize. It's useful knowledge to have. Start with this article http://www.netmechanic.com/news/vol3/css_no15.htm

Joy

**theKeeper** · 02-22-2005, 09:21 PM

ooo ok well that's something i just learned about CSS. Is that a CSS2 spec Joy?

One thing to bear in mind with this subject is that fonts are generally quite large in file size. And using one or more of them on your site will dramatically increase download times for your visitors.

It's something to keep in mind and weight against just using the standard Web fontset.

I'm gonna search out this subject some more.

**Joy Foraker** · 02-23-2005, 01:33 AM

Yeap Mark its my understanding that the server has to download the font set before page opens for viewer. I think that is one of the reasons its not well known or a popular technique with web designers, there are better options AYK. I was quoting from CSS 1

I noticed on CSS 2 http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/fonts.html#font-selection --they are still talking about long download times.

Even with DSL its probably not really practical yet :(

**tfoster** · 02-23-2005, 08:26 AM

Here's something I stumbled upon, it seems Bitstream has some tools to allow a designer to embed fonts:
http://www.truedoc.com/webpages/FAQs/activex_faq.html
http://www.truedoc.com/webpages/intro/introduction2.htm

Kind of scary, especially when you start reading about a player having to be downloaded to the users system (300+ KB!), and the things you have to do on the server side (yeah, my host will be sure to jump on that!

).
And it's not compatible with everyone (looks to be unavailable for Mac or XP).

But I guess that's just one company's solution...

Joy, I read through one of the links you posted (thanks!) and saw that there are two flavors of downloadable fonts. One of them does keep the fonts out of the users system so the piracy issue is non-existent, which is nice. That one also seems to be the more compatible of the two (Netscape and Explorer)...

Must do more reading!! :}

**tfoster** · 02-23-2005, 08:46 AM

Some more clarification-
The "flavor" that doesn't download the font to the user's system is the Bitstream technology I mentioned before, so my statement that Bitstream's was "one company's solution" was a bit off-it's the only solution!
Microsoft has their own way of doing it, but it's only compatible with Explorer (big shocker!), and the fonts do download to the users system.

FYI-when I went to the Bitstream links I mentioned, I was confronted with a security alert box asking if I wanted to download what I presume to be the player. Imagine confronting our site visitors with that dialog box-yikes!! If I were just browsing around that's usually my cue to hit cancel and the back button (especially with the all of the Spyware and junk floating around-I'm afraid to click on anything, much less something that says its going to install something).
This actually seems like more of an intrusivve burden than being asked to download the Flash player or PDF reader. At least with those the viewer will be getting more functionality (and hopefully understand that). With this there isn't any more "functionality" as far as the viewer is concerned. So in essence we're asking the viewer to "please take a leap of faith and install this software you never heard of so you can see the cool font I used, even though in the end you could probably care less if it was Times or BeesKnees".
Seems like it still needs some work so it's non-intrusive. The good news is that at least folks are moving in that direction and perhaps there will be a user-friendly solution in the near future.
In the meantime I'm sticking with JPEGs for my super cool headline type! [confused]

**Joy Foraker** · 02-23-2005, 10:07 AM

Thanks for the input. Good research. I hate those automatic downloads too and never take them.

Makes sense about streaming, anything can be streamed nowdays.

I agree, its not fully developed -- I'm definitely staying with GIF, JPG or using a CSS Family of Fonts. As we are forced to use more CSS, W3 might eventually make it possible. It's a good idea. 8D

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