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Color defect after exporting in Photoshop


G

GuusR

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Hello there PG-Community, I'm new to this forum but however not new to Photoshop. Most of the times I can find answers to these kind of problems somewhere on the internet, but this particular one is really giving me headache since non of the solutions I found works so hopefully you guys can help me out..

First of all I never had any problems with this but they recently started (Reinstalling PS hasn't worked)

Well, the problem:
I want to print the file I'm crating (so think CMYK). Now whenever I export a file colors, and especially black, turn greyish (black into a dark, flat grey). It is not just the monitor displaying it wrong since it stays clearly visible after printing.

What I already did (and didn't work):
- Creating the file in 8-bit CMYK (tried it both with web coated swop V2 & forga39)
- Trying switch Proof colors on or off does not change anything (so it should perserve those colors when exporting)
- Adding a little CMYK in the black
- Trying different files to export to (.jpeg .tiff & .pdf)

Further notes:
- Problem is still strongly visible when printing the file on paper
- It is not my computer (opened the exported file on different computers)
- When I disable "add color profile" when exporting or disable color profile in PS the colors are the same, but I want to embed a color profile since I don't want to have any surprises when I get it back from the print shop

Gear:
- PS CS7 running on a 2012 15" MacRetina with OSX Mavericks (but problem started on OSX Lion suddenly), obviously updating disdn't work


So, I think it has anything to do with the color profile not being embedded right. I'm not an expert on this, so I would't know where to search.
Could it be a setting in Potoshop or something with my OS? Ans where to find it.


Thanks for any help, I can add any info or creens of my settings if you like.

G.
 
It's really hard to tell without having a copy of your Photoshop file in front of us. If at all possible, please post it.

T
 
Sure here are my settings and pictures that further explain my problem. Picture without color profile is how I see it in photoshop (For proof colors on and off). Maybe there is something strange in my color settings?

Testfile.jpgTestfile2.jpgSchermafbeelding 2014-01-14 om 23.35.13.pngSchermafbeelding 2014-01-14 om 23.40.45.png
 
Hmm difference in color is not visible, probably because the forum doesn't show color profile, this hopefully explains it better: Schermafbeelding 2014-01-14 om 23.48.56.png
 
To help, we really need to examine the PSD file, not a bunch of settings and screenshots.

T
 
I was able to open your PSD file with no problem. Thanks. Being able to look at it saves me from having to ask a whole series of questions to eliminate the many possibilities that exist.

I could see no problems with the file, so my first questions will deal with the printing method(s).

With which of the following printer method(s) have you tried? With which method(s) are you experiencing this problem? Did any of the following methods give good results? Please try to answer each of the above three questions for each of the methods listed below. You can just append something like " - tried, worked well", " - tried, same problem", or " - didn't try", etc. to the end of each line below - you don't need to write a long story about each. :)

1. Printing this PSD file from within PS using an inkjet connected to your computer?

2. Saving a flattened version of this PSD file as a TIF (or something else - please specify), and then opening that file with PS, and printing with an inkjet connected to your computer?

3. Saving a flattened version of this PSD file as a TIF (or something else), and then opening that file with some other program (e.g., Qimage, Lightroom, a page layout program, a word processing program, etc.), and then printing that with an inkjet connected to your computer?

4. Saving a flattened version of this PSD file as a TIF (or something else), and then sending that file to one of the big on-line printing services such as Mpix, or to the print shop at a local office supply store (eg, Staples or Office Depot in the USA, or equivalent in your country)?

5. Saving a flattened version of this PSD file as a TIF (or something else), and then sending that file to a large volume commercial firm that uses offset printing?

6. If you used a printing company, did they supply you with an ICC profile for their system (ie, combination of printer, inkset, paper, etc.)? If so, did you use it, and did you still experience the problem?

Cheers,

Tom M
 
Last edited:
PS - Just to double check, other than saving this PSD file as a TIF or some similar format, I presume you are not doing anything else to it before printing, for example, converting it to a custom maximum black generation profile, are you?

T
 
Hey Tom, thanks for helping me out. So I've tried the things you've asked:
1. Printed the .PSD file from PS on an laserprinter (had no inkjet) colors look fine

2. File is fine aswel, it even looks normal on the screen.

3. Printing the same file from other software does make it more grey

4&5. I have only printed a 250 A2 copies last time (so large offset), taking the risk, and colors looked rubbish.
Also, as a note, the others i've printed for 1&2 are on large office printers (so probably same as you ask for at 4)

6. They did not send any, but they specify which one to use which is FORGA39 color profile, so I use that one. However every CMYK profile I use gives same effect.


Last one: I don't know if I'm somehow converting it. I don't really check any boxes or change settings when I save as, but maybe I once did somehow, how can I check? (im not an expert on this)


Thanks again, hopefully this will give you some clues.
 
Hi GuusR -

Sorry I couldn't get back to you before this, but yesterday was super busy for me.

To summarize what you wrote in your last post, prints that you produced in-house using PS look fine whether you are printing the PSD file or the flattened CMYK JPG version of it (ie, the same JPG included in your zip file). This exactly what I would expect from looking at your PSD and JPG files in PS, and in all other modern, color managed software. So, I don't think there is anything wrong with your files.

To continue with what you wrote, it sounds like you also see the problem when you use some other (undefined) in-house software to view the files. I don't know exactly what other software you used, but some software is completely unaware of embedded color profiles and some is even unaware of the difference between RGB and CMYK color modes. I suspect this is what happened. A lot of older software thinks that everything in the world is sRGB, LOL. For example, I looked at your JPG on a 2002 vintage photo viewing program (VuePro) and your blacks came out a medium dark cyan. It looked horrible on that program even though I know your files are OK. So, without knowing exactly what SW you used, unfortunately, your tests on other software didn't tell us very much.

To continue with what you wrote, it sounds like you also see the problem when you had the flattened file printed at an offset press facility and at a print store (business printer).


IMHO, the results from print stores that cater to local businesses are also absolutely useless in diagnosing something like this. Unfortunately, in my experience, the staff at 95% of the business printers (at least around here) don't have a clue about color management, CMYK vs RGB, etc.. Even if their advertisements say different, in my experience, 95% of their customers submit files in sRGB. They do an OK job on sRGB files, but make a complete mess of anything submitted with a different profile (eg, Adobe RGB), or in a different color mode (ie, CMYK).

In contrast, most offset printing companies are usually quite competent. They should have no problem handling a CMYK file with an embedded output profile. So, prompted by this knowledge, I took a closer look at your two files. I discovered that both your PSD and your JPG were tagged as US Web Coated SWOP v2, NOT the FORGA39 profile that your offset printer requested.

You mentioned that you experimented with several different profiles, so this discrepancy may simply be because you sent me one of your test files, not the specific FORGA39 file that you sent to the printer. However, even if you sent your printer the SWOP version, they should have been able to deal with it with no problem.

To continue with my tests, I also used the eyedropper in PS to numerically check just how dark your blacks really are. I read the black in your CMYK JPG as RGB=1,1,1 or the HSB brightness as 1%. The corresponding numbers for your PSD are RGB=1,0,0 and an HSB brightness of 1%. Such low numbers should show up as a true black. So, once again, we have confirmed that other than the minor SWOP vs FORGA discrepancy, there seems to be absolutely nothing wrong with the blacks in your file.

At this point, my best guess is that for some reason, your offset press facility messed up your job. I don't know if (a) they made a computer error, (b) if they were trying to save ink (the pressmen are always under pressure to do this), (c) the company is geared towards commercial low-cost high-volume printing (think newspaper production versus a short-run fine art printer that guarantees rich blacks), or (d) something else happened.

But in any case, personally, I would describe the problem to the offset printing company and ask them to look over your file and re-run your job if they think they can do better. If they are a large volume, pro printing facility, there is absolutely no reason they should make a major error in black levels such as seems to have occurred.

However, that being said, I have no way of knowing just how light the blacks were from the offset printing company. Don't forget that printed blacks can never be as dark as the blacks on your monitor, but because I haven't seen a sample of their work and don't know the usual customers of this printer, I don't know if their blacks are truly out of spec.

Sorry I can't be more definitive.

HTH,

Tom
 
Hi Guus.

I didn't get to use your file coz connection's slow on my side.....

I need to know ... what is your Photoshop mix for the CMYK black you're using?

I may have missed it in your posts but is this for desktop or off-set printing?
 
The mix I'm using for black is C:91 M:79 Y:62 K:97 so that should be ok right?

The file is for off-set printing, as I explained earlier the color defect is visible on screen, desktop print and off-set print.
 
Finally ... managed to download it... lol ....

At the top.... it says your creative suite applications are not syncronized for consistent color.

I don't know whether this has something to do with your problem......
 
Your color mix should be OK....

I opened in PS and CS and exported to Corel, opened in fax viewer, even saved as a pdf.... the colors stay true as black.... without gray tones you mentioned.

I've done a test print and came out black.


If your concern of what the output may look like at the offset shop, why not send it to them to do a sample test print? The problem might have been the different software you used to view it ( as Tom mentioned ). Other applications tend to show color differently.

The offset techs may be able to help you color correct the document. Or perhaps ask them for their prefered ICC profile or settings for you to use on your documents to see the difference on your equipment.

As far as I can tell... I detect NO problem. Unless someone else does... like Tom.... using their equipment.
 
I've just done some research on the creative suite color sync, I can't rally change it because I haven't installed the complete creative suite, but it also shouldn't matter since it is only a sync between different adobe programs..
 
To summarize the problem once again: Exporting from Photoshop to .tiff or .jpeg gives a file that has defective colors (greyish black). This defect shows on every print job (offset & desktop printer) and on image viewer software except for photoshop. Strange eh?
 
Not really strange... for some reason I've experienced that - saving as tif or jpg affects the color. I dunno why or how it happens. But it could be due to flattening the image most especially if there are Adjustment layers. but on most occasions they flatten fine..

For desktop printing, you can change the settings to compensate and get the print quality or color tone you require.

Whenever I send stuff to my printers, I'd request for a test print or have them do color checking. The artwork file turns out ok.

Unless you have something there I could have missed.

Let's wait for what Mr. T has to say.....
 
OP: Any ideas yet?

Did you read my post carefully? It was full of ideas and analysis. Did you understand what I said?


OP: Exporting from Photoshop to .tiff or .jpeg gives a file that has defective colors (greyish black).

That's your experience. When I looked at your files, including the flattened jpg, that's not what I saw. I saw no problem. DV8 had exactly the same experience as me. That strongly suggests that the problem is in the method/software/system YOU are using to view your flattened files.


OP: This defect shows on every print job (offset & desktop printer) and on image viewer software except for photoshop.

How many different offset printing companies have you tried?


Tom
 
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