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thanks, that was very helpful. I just have trouble knowing which tool is named what and which tool to use. I'll figure it out eventually . . . hopefully.thanks so much for taking the time to post that!  The main thing I don't get is that when I use my pen tool it just draws freeform lines. What do I select to get it to make the points like you did? I'm sorry to be bugging you with this, but I'm working on a logo and it's driving me mad. It seems like it should be such a simple task, but I'm struggling so with it. The other thing I struggle with is selecting an area.  Sometimes I THINK I have it selected, but then there's nothing there. Do I need to rasterize the layer before I can select it?

By the way, I usually work with transparent backgrounds. Thanks again so much for your help! Are you using a different version of Photoshop? I have CS5.