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Intense -before and after manipulation


Larry, several posts ago, Clare pointed out the benefits of hue complexity.

You responded with adjustments that may have added some complexity to the tonality, and possibly the point-to-point variation of the saturation, but these are different from hue complexity.

She is now trying to tell you that simple adjustments (like you performed) do not magically give an image hue complexity. In fact, they often won't even give the image the desired variation of saturation from point to point.

The easiest way to get these features is by applying the colors you want directly to the image, say, by painting them on.

If you are not a good painter, there are some automatic adjustment you can make that will move the hues around. Examples of these include gradient maps and playing with the hue slider in a hue/sat adjustment layer. HOWEVER, these adjustments are based on mathematical criteria (eg, the hue changes in a very strict way with luminosity) and tend to produce at best only a minor improvement, or, at worst, a mess.

HTH,

Tom
 
Tom, I am afraid I am not complex enough to play in this league. Thank you for all of your kind and unkind direction in the past. I'm done with this stuff. Even if I became the best retouch PS er in this part of the world, I doubt I could make a dollar with it, that is due to factors of age, the market I'm in etc. I have learned enough to know what all the tools do, some color knowledge and I can use that knowledge in my business and be sufficient enough with it. It is simply not necessary for me to subject myself to being humiliated. Never have in the past, don't intend to start now.
 
Just remember one thing Larry, graphics is too damn subjective to rely on one person telling you what is right and what is wrong. What one persons right, maybe another person's wrong... go with the flow bro..
 
I'm sorry that you thought you were being humiliated Larry; that was not my intent at all. I have taken some pretty strong criticism in the past myself and tried to learn from it, but it isn't easy sometimes. Besides, you have learned a LOT. Just look at your first colorization and compare it. The way you created that background this time is perfect! All I am getting at is a suggestion that you try to pick out some areas that have different tones of color, brush some color over that area and set the blend mode. That is all. I guess I could have said it more clearly. But I understand that you don't want to do that kind of thing anymore. But I hope you don't quit when you are so close. The way the flat color is applied is well done. I still think the eyes could use a different blend mode. Well, I hardly ever do any myself as I'm not that good at it honestly. Just do for fun somethings you won't make money doing.
 
Sometimes you can lead a horse up to the water but you can't make him drink it. That's because he doesn't understand what your saying to him...drink you stupid horse. Maybe if you presented it in a different manner he might understand you and take a big ole drink. Regardless, no amount of trying to explain to him to drink, coz he don't speak your language. He only understands simple commands. He can be trained but it requires patience and nurturing. He learns by rewarding him and not yelling at him when he doesn't do what you want, just because he is unclear on exactly what you do want.
 
Oy, OK, you got it. No more "yelling." I didn't mean to be heard that way, but I concede: you aren't a horse and you can do it! :mrgreen:
 
Horses ... maybe but that comes with age .....understandable:shocked: just kidding bro:rofl: somebody has to lighten the load:mrgreen:
 
ALB you make a really valid point, sometimes trying to learn something totally new is very hard, made harder when the 'technobots' throw information around like it's an episode of Star Trek the 'maintenance crew', episode.:thumbsup:

Deep breaths pull your neck in and just do what you do brother.
 
It means 'just get on with it':mrgreen:
 
Thank you for the encouragement friends. It is well received.
 
:thumbsup: udaman. well, sometimes:mrgreen:
 
Larry, I'm really sorry if my previous post in this tread embarrassed you. However, to be honest, I just don't understand why it had that effect. I was actually trying to help you by serving as a go-between, offering a more nuts-and-bolts explanation and clarification of the tip Clare gave (in more artistic terms) about using different hues.

People here are not out to get you. That's the exact opposite of our intent. We are trying to share whatever small bits of knowledge we have. Using multiple hues is not basic art / basic photoshop, it's pretty advanced stuff, and you are doing well. The same goes for the difference between difference pushing tonal ranges around vs pushing hues around using adjustments - this is NOT introductory Photoshop material.

Cheers,

Tom
 
Whoa! It just dawned on me that this is what all the ta-doo is about. Honestly, I have read and read this post and no where in it can I gleen that I was supposed to correct my image using this method. Which, by the way, is just a little unclear that it is an instruction. I just took it to mean you were answering a statement about things looking different online and making a general statement about a method that you employ or maybe how to go about it. Never considered it to be an answer to any advice that I may have asked for. Had you stated this in a different manner..like "here Larry, try this method to help with fixing the flatness in your image" it might have registered. I take the fall for this, because I should have paid closer attention. Thanks for going to the trouble to demo it. I will try this in the future.

ibclare said:
That happens a lot once you post an image on the forum. For some reason, maybe because it is now on display, you see more (unfortunately the shortcomings) than you do on PS or whatever program you're using. I think it's Photoshop having a good laugh: "Guru? You don't say?!"

Here is an illustration of what I have been saying about skin color being more than one color. A lot of people don't seem to care about this when doing colorizations and such, but I do. Most of the time the differences are subtle, but there is usually a gradation of yellow-pink -brown, orange - brown - violet, and so on depending on race and other factors.

I've demonstrated by using the brush to choose a skin color and painting a swath over it.

View attachment 32399View attachment 32400
Click to expand...
 
Tom,
No, you didn't embarrass me. I have admitted that I am a total novice when it comes to artistic and color methodology. Nobody said anybody was out to get anybody either. It is true that I came here to learn and I try to keep an open mind, but sometimes things get lost. This is not meant to be derogatory, but in your case, you are very advanced and sometimes that is detrimental when your dealing with novices. Sometimes the language is not understandable because of your technical explanations. Have you ever heard - "I asked what time it was and the guy explained to me how to build a Timex watch"? Please see my post prior to this one. :thumbsup:

Tom Mann said:
Larry, I'm really sorry if my previous post in this tread embarrassed you. However, to be honest, I just don't understand why it had that effect. I was actually trying to help you by serving as a go-between, offering a more nuts-and-bolts explanation and clarification of the tip Clare gave (in more artistic terms) about using different hues.

People here are not out to get you. That's the exact opposite of our intent. We are trying to share whatever small bits of knowledge we have. Using multiple hues is not basic art / basic photoshop, it's pretty advanced stuff, and you are doing well. The same goes for the difference between difference pushing tonal ranges around vs pushing hues around using adjustments - this is NOT introductory Photoshop material.

Cheers,

Tom
Click to expand...
 
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