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creating 1st inferface - advice pls on page length compatibi

I agree with not using frames. The reasons why I never use them is because of the bad support, no possibility to bookmark your pages or send links to others, navigational problems for users, lack of flexibility and some printing problems. Thumbs down.
Hiya gang!

Ok actually... i agree about not using frames, BUT, i don't hate them and want to poke their eyes out with a sharp stick... like SOMEBODY in here does... right Sue!? heheee :p

Anywho, i digress...

G made a few points about issues that can arise when using frmaes, BUT... all of tem have their solutions. And i wouldn't "personally" not use frames because of those reasons mentioned.

Bad Support -- yes, maybe some years back, but most all modern browser version have no issues with framesets.

Bookmarking and "Sending Links" -- easily rectifiable using some newer scripts out there that folks can click on, with your encouragement, to perform those specific functions; including priniting.

Actually, it's been tested/proven that frameset navigation is more "user-friendly" than normal navigational stuctures. Mainly because the navigation is always there within view, and stationary (just think about the navigation/menus within software programs). The surfer cannot get confused about navigation if it never moves -- unlike traditional, single page designs; where navigation can completely change it's look and 'apparent' function.

In fact, come to think of it, nowadays i wouldn't have an real concerns about using frames other than the problems with the search engines. That's about the only REAL concern now... BUT... it's a big one too, so.. that's why i steer clear of using frames. Perhaps this will change in the future.

And now as for Kevin's problem... i'd side with AC i think and choose to go with creating a TD cell BG image, that'll tile within it's cell as the table gets longer or shorter. That would be your most ergonomic solution. But Kevin is the only one who can say whether it's the most 'practical' or not. And i'd hesitate to have that thicker piece of image tile... i think i'd rather see that thinner slice tile instead. Specifically because it's less intrusive on your design AND less distracting for the visitor trying to concentrate on the page's content. The ol' "less is more" idea here.

Anywho... that's me 2cents here.
Have fun! :D
great info!

sfm - thanks for the screen shots!

Where did you get the toolbar used in step 1?
I've never seen that before... I actually just got photoshop7 last week.

Step 2 - you're saying so have the image slice cover the entire image?

Step 3 - there is no way to designate an image as "tileable" in ps is there? You're saying to slice it so that it will tile seamlessly... or is there a way to have ps code it as a background.

Step 4 - just change the html code alone?

Just making sure I understand you clearly.
I do need help on step 1 though b/c I can't find that menu box.

Additionally, when you were saying the html code to keep the background from scrolling, where you referring to bg properties="fixed", or something else?

Hi step 1 just put the code that I have there before your image tag in the html that screen shot was taken in Dreamweaver

step 2 yes that complete rectangle image there down to where it is thin

step 3 make/slice the image as I have marked in a red box and then in your html make it a background in that cell

step 4 no you have to make the image first so that you have the corner sections in your image

yes that is what I meant
ok - gotcha

thanks! I appreciate all the help.

This great info will help me when i go back to working on the real interface i'm designing.

Thanks again
Thanks and Glad I could help - these are just things I face in my daily routine
more problems

I've taken your advice and it works perfectly. Hurray!

Problem is - now that i'm trying to move forward with the interface, I'm still in over my head.

I can get the right side border to tile perfectly.

But the left side now has several slices for buttons.
Instead of these buttons simply falling under each other at the top of the page, leaving room for the background image to tile at the bottom, they leave space in between each button.

Here it is in code:
the interface as image slicer spits it out:

the interface "blown up" when I add too much text:

how it looks after I fix the right side and do what I can for the left:

how can I make my menu pieces line up closely together, leaving more area at the bottom where the background image can do its work?

thanks to sfm

Wow - tables inside of tables - what a novel idea!
Thanks sfm!

I've even done this before many times - now I almost wonder what I was thinking all along.

anyways - I've learned SO MUCH in the last week - thanks for all your help.

I've posted the solution (comes from sfm not me).
Hopefully this helps others like me..... people who have bloody foreheads from desk-pounding! :)


This is a great way to solve the problem because it leaves the door open to very easy site upgrades in the future!
glad I could help :perfect:

for anyone else what I tried to explain was tables have to match up regardless of how many columns or rows look at the image and you will see what I mean.........

had to make it smaller [confused]
If you start out with something like the image below for your tables (inserting tables into tables) you can see as Kevinb52 quickly learnt it can grow and give you more flexibility [:I