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Help Me Choose My Next Comp!


PurelySwift

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Hey all. I decided to register and post here because it seems the most relevant place to get help in my case. I currently own a Sony Vaio NV series that's about 4-years old and have loved it. However, getting into photography and post processing, 1.7ghz Pentium 4m on 512mb ran just isn't enough. Photoshop CS lags when I am doing routine dodge/burn, but granted this is to a 45mb tif file.

So, my question is, how much of an upgrade is enough? I'm looking at getting another Sony, preferably a fully loaded FJ series for around $2000. 2.0ghz, 1 gig of ram, and a 100gig hard drive should free things up a bit. Or, as I am suspecting, will it take more like 2gig of ram to get through what I am looking to do with the machine?

Thanks for your help in advance, and sorry if this isn't the right part of the boards for this topic.
 
The difference between the two machines you listed is almost nothing, especially from a photoshop standpoint.... and $2000 is way too much to pay for that setup. You could get a faster machine for under $500 these days. That's assuming you want to stick with a Windows machine. 1 GB of ram should be enough to get through what you are doing, in fact, the 512 MB should be able to handle things. I'm guessing something else is going on with the machine. Anything over 1GB, unless you're doing 3D or video, is a tad overkill.

You might want to check out a few of the online resellers to see what's available:

http://www.tigerdirect.com
http://www.newegg.com
 
You may want to consider something with 2 hd's. as well,? the possibility that you may upgrade to cs2 or 3 (how far away can that be?) CS2 needs a gig of ram to run reasonably well and it works better with a dedicated scratch disk. You could have your Sony rebuilt for under 1k with a new motherboard (that could handle up to 4gigs ram), a faster processor and better graphics card and a few other upgrades like USB 2.0. Keep your eye on USB technology, there are some amazing things in store for us. If you're getting into photography, don't even consider a LCD monitor yet. think about a more sophisticated cooling system as well. All this for under 1K
 
ronmatt said:
You could have your Sony rebuilt for under 1k with a new motherboard (that could handle up to 4gigs ram), a faster processor and better graphics card and a few other upgrades like USB 2.0. Keep your eye on USB technology, there are some amazing things in store for us. If you're getting into photography, don't even consider a LCD monitor yet. think about a more sophisticated cooling system as well.

Rebuilt a laptop? \:/
 
OOPS, NEVERMIND. I'm not familiar with laptops, just assumed it was a desktop. Still, $2,000????
 
PurelySwift said:
I'm looking at getting another Sony, preferably a fully loaded FJ series for around $2000. 2.0ghz

That one runs on a Pentium M 760 which is outdated technology. Do yourself a great favor buy not buying it. What you need is at least a Core 2 Duo 2.0Ghz. Don?t be fooled by its clock speed; yes, it's the same clock speed as the M 760, but performance is almost doubled in every area. Here's a comparison to give you an idea:
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3137&review=Inspiron+e1505+Core+2+Duo

Core 2 Duo is two processors in one. Not only does this give more performance, but it also allows for much smoother multitasking. Let's be honest, haven?t we all been in that situation so often with single core processors that we wonder what?s slowing down the system this time.? [stuned] That situation improves immensely when running Core 2 Duo.

Not only does the Core 2 Duo T7200 almost run twice as fast, it also runs cooler and uses 50% less power that the old Pentium M. The price is about the same as far as I know, but I could be wrong about that, but probably not far off.

Personally I think the VGN-SZ340 with a T7200 is much better choice and even with a 100GB hard drive stays within the target price range. As for memory; buy what you think you?ll need in the short term, don't buy what you think you need after a year. The reason is that memory is in general getting cheaper over time, so you save yourself some money. It's also easier to upgrade memory than to find out once you run a new OS for example (like Vista in a few months, that is if you run Windows or Photoshop CS3) that you should have bought a faster processor? and (quite often) a new motherboard, especially with core2duo.

Now you might say ?I?m not interested in Vista?, but didn?t we say the same about Windows XP several years ago. Often we don?t have a choice, whether we like it or not.? ;)
 
Gaussian, thanks for the info. I've been hearing a ton of buzz about the Core 2 Duo but was having a hard time completely making sense of it's true performance. I've seen the SZ series in person and it's just too small at 13.3".

Looks like I may try to wait for Sony's next release of Core 2 then. It can't be too long before they upgrade that Pentium D sporting RC Series desktop, and I hear that another 15" laptop with it is on the way by the end of October.

I doubt I can wait for Vista or CS3, and probably wouldn't want Vista for the first year to let Microsoft get the rest of the bugs out and wait for software such as Noise Ninja to catch up.
 
If you are planning on doing alot of photo and grahpics editing I would reccomend an Apple.
 
santiago said:
If you are planning on doing alot of photo and grahpics editing I would reccomend an Apple.

The Windows and Mac of Photoshop are pretty much the same so it doesn't make any difference. ;)
 
Gaussian said:
The Windows and Mac of Photoshop are pretty much the same so it doesn't make any difference.

There's more to it than just the application interface and features though. There won't be a difference in the application functioning, but there will in the performance and the workflow options. You can do most thinks on windows that you can on mac, but since mac's have always been designed with graphics and design in mind, they are more streamlined for graphics work. Plus, with the new macs... if you really wanted to... you could run windows on them as a dual boot. heh For about $600 (USD) you could have a solid starting mac. For $1000 you could get a laptop that would run things pretty well too.

$0.02
 
MindBender said:
There's more to it than just the application interface and features though. There won't be a difference in the application functioning, but there will in the performance and the workflow options.

Performance: on OS level (only talking about Windows), yes, on hardware level, no, because you don't have as much freedom on hardware level on the Mac as with the PC, it's just a fact.
Workflow: I don't see why I as a Photoshop user (because that's what we're talking about right now) need a Mac to be more productive. Care to share any examples of what makes workflow on the Mac so much better than Windows (again, in the context of Photoshop), to a point that a customer says; "Hey, how did you finish the job that fast?!?!".

Just trying to be objective here.? ;)
 
on hardware level, no, because you don't have as much freedom on hardware level on the Mac as with the PC, it's just a fact.

True, you can't get as much low end hardware for mac as you can for windows machines... but from a performance standpoint that doesn't really matter. Since Apple uses a closed hardware system, there aren't hardware conflicts. When I plug a hardware periferal into my mac, it just runs it... no driver issues... no crashy bad hardware implimentations. That there is more total hardware available on the windows platform is true to an extent... but high end hardware is pretty much the same across the board. In fact, most windows based hardware I can just stick in a mac, flash the firmware and it will run natively since the hardware itself isn't really any different for the most part. It's been many years since the hardware interfaces were different between the systems. As much freedom of hardware? No. As good or better performance? Yes.

Workflow: I don't see why I as a Photoshop user (because that's what we're talking about right now) need a Mac to be more productive. Care to share any examples of what makes workflow on the Mac so much better than Windows (again, in the context of Photoshop), to a point that a customer says; "Hey, how did you finish the job that fast?!?!".

Well... first, I said that things were "more streamlined", not that you "need a Mac to be more productive". Macs are designed from the ground up with graphics in mind. It's little things like having all your common special characters (?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ∞, ?, ?, ?, ?, √, ∑, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, etc.) on the keyboard rather than having to track down obscure alt+ codes (can you even make a real ellipsis on windows? I haven't found it). To things like OS X being one of the first operating systems to build color management in at the OS level. From what I've heard OS X is the only OS that can send CMYK data directly to an output device (without going through some kind of a RIP RGB conversion process). Pre-2000, the mac was untouched in these areas... windows is slowly catching up. The gap isn't as big as it used to be for sure... you can certainly do graphics work on windows now. My point is that it's just more smooth and easy to work with on Apples. And from a purely historical sense... you wouldn't even have Photoshop without Mac... it was designed as a tool to take advantage of the first macs. Most of the processes that are used in graphics pre-production were developed on and for the mac platform and then later taken and adapted for use on other systems (color managed workflow, true type fonts, graphically based design programs, etc.).

Second... by it's very definition, "workflow" implies that you are doing more than just working in Photoshop. I'm not talking about tooling around in Photoshop for the hell of it, I mean if you actually wanted to get something output in a format besides viewing it inside Photoshop. So... from a standpoint of just being inside Photoshop working with it's native tools the one major thing you'll see from a functionality and efficiency standpoint is that it works. It doesn't crash, it doesn't slow down and die when it tries to save a file, it doesn't not recognize your plugins, it just runs. When you move out to a "workflow" standpoint, which does impact the speed of production, I can think of one major advantage of mac over windows. I can open damned any file on a mac. Send me some obscure graphics format or media file and chances are I'll be able to open it and get at what's inside. This is rarely the case on windows. It's not the nightmare that it was a few years ago on windows, but it's still not up to par with mac's ability to handle files. (Speaking of files, since OS X drives don't fragment... read that again don't fragment ever due to how they write files to disk, you don't have progressive speed degeneration on your OS while working and more importantly, you greatly decrease the likelyhood that the files you're saving out will be corrupted.) I'm not sure what it is that causes this one, but I can't say how many times I've been working on a winXP machine... open a PSD... make a change... go to save the file and it gives me a permissions error leaving only the option of quitting and restarting photoshop... often having to log out and back in for some reason. Never had anything even remotely close happen on a mac. So, like I said... from a tools standpoing within photoshop... they are the same more or less... but my point was always that you have to talk about the entire process, not just the one application.

And just to nip it in the butt before someone says the inevitable... macs don't cost more (someone was thinking about posting that, you know it. ;) ). Last information that I saw on the subject said that not only do comparably equiped macs and window machines cost roughly the same, but the cost of operation of macs is substantially less than windows machines after only a year of operation (this includes things like tech support, additional hardware issues, downtime, and that windows machines use about 75% more electricity than macs... nice to know when buying your UPS ;) ).

I've used Mac PCs (did I mention that Apple actually introduced the phrase "personal computer" way before windows machines started using it? ;) ), windows machines, linux machines, unix machines (OS X is BSD, so this isn't as big a leap anymore from a back end standpoint) and slew of others. Most machines have one thing or another going for them (even that hacked up, reverse engineered, and outright stolen beast windows has a couple features I like) but I've kept coming back to macs over and over. There are lots of variables. If you have tons of software for windows that you can't swap out, a single platform vendor, or some other legitimate reason for sticking with windows then go for it... things aren't as black and white as they used to be. But if you're buying a new machine and updating software, it's a good idea to keep your options and your mind open.

Just trying to be objective here. ;)

Always a good thing. I might come off as a "mac zealot" sometimes, but it's not without reason... I've been using computers for a long long time... it's just experience. Take it for what it's worth. :)

I don't want to turn this into a mac vs. windows flame war... because really... what's the point? I think we've had enough of those on the internet to last more than one lifetime. Just trying to throw out an alternative that might not have been considered. YMMV.

$0.02
 
Thanks for your interesting and detailed view on this Mindbender, I appreciate that.? ;)
 
I'm not trying to make this a mac/pc flame war either, but my limited experience on the G4's is that while they perform well, their monitors always seem to be miscalibrated. Every G4 that was in my college's language lab, off. The ones in CompUSA, off color. Thing is, they're bright, and don't look off color. It's only when I compare to my own website, which I made on a calibrated monitor do I see how far they are from what's correct.

So, if you can point me to a tutorial on calibrating a macbook, not the stand-alone displays which I know are supposed to come with software built in for that, but the laptops system settings, then that would be a worth while read for me. Otherwise, that's one of the main things keeping me from making the switch. I love my Sony's monitor, and if I do decide to go for another laptop, it's the top of my list.

However, the new Dell XPS 410 (core 2 duo), is really inexpensive for what you're getting. Damn!
 
PurelySwift said:
but my limited experience on the G4's is that while they perform well, their monitors always seem to be miscalibrated.

That's odd since mac's can automatically color calibrate their monitors (if it's an apple monitor as well) with the push of a button. (Can't believe I forgot to mention that in the list of how macs are designed with graphics in mind... must be slipping in my old age. heh).

Every G4 that was in my college's language lab, off.

Somebody does have to push that button though... and my experience with collage labs is that they aren't maintained very well... and being a language lab it's doubtful that color calibration was their main concern. Websites are a bad way of comparing color anyway... even if the computer that built it was calibrated... the browser that it was tested on and the browser that it's being viewed on have a major impact on how the images are being processed. That's not even taking into account the calibration, ambient light (school labs and computer mega stores are notorious for having horrible lighting... usually chosen for cost effectiveness and not color reproduction). More than likely though, the monitors were simply never calibrated.

So, if you can point me to a tutorial on calibrating a macbook

Generally you just run colorsync or use a hardware color calibration tool. For most mac monitors (haven't tested this on the new laptops) you open the system preferences in the displays area and there is a "recalibrate" button that runs some calibration tests and sets the current monitor charactaristics... then you can use that as a current base for running something like colorsync or using your hardware tool. I've never seen anything like that on a windows machine, so I don't think there is an analagous function to point you to.

I love my Sony's monitor

Me too. :) I have my apple (which is a trinitron) as my main display and a sony as my second display. While TFTs have gotten better over the years, they're still not up to par with CRT for reliable color correctness yet. Plus it's harder to accurately color correct an LCD monitor without a hardware tool because of how they work different from CRTs (which is what adobe gamma and colorsync were designed primarily to work with).

If you have a vested interest in using a windows machine like lots of software that's windows based, then it's probably not enough of an incentive to change systems. If you're starting from scratch, there's not question in my mind.
 
MindBender said:
While TFTs have gotten better over the years, they're still not up to par with CRT for reliable color correctness yet.

Yes, exactly, that's till the reason why I use CRT. LCD might be great for a whole lot of things, but for photoretouching nothing beats a good CRT in my opinion. But omg, those 21" CRTs are huge! :D
 
Gaussian said:
But omg, those 21" CRTs are huge!

Yeah... I can't do anything else on my desk. They're disproportionatly deep... not to mention heavy as @#%@$%@. heh oh well. ;)
 

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