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Perhaps an odd question about extraction and superimposing


T

the prisoner

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Hello!
I am a new member to the forum and have a question about trying something I am not sure can be done with photoshop. I am very grateful that this forum is available!!

I am using an iMac with a G-4 and super-drive; my version of Photoshop is v7.0.

As to my level of understanding, I would say that I am just a beginner
with a slight understand of tools.

Now to my question:

I have a neighbor who is importing African furniture.
The chairs are hand beaded with patterns and designs.
What he would like me to attempt is to replace some of the designs
with designs of his own-- like a blue-print for the craftsman to follow
for the next shipment.

Is it possible to 'remove' the original design, then lay the new designs in? And if so, how would this be done? Or a reasonable facsimile to accomplish this guideline.

Any suggestions and guidance would be MOST appreciated!!!

Thank you to all who respond,
the prisoner
 
Welcome to the forum, the prisoner. To answer your question, yes it is entirely possible to do what you have been asked. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to give specific advice without seeing a specific example, both of the image to be modified and the new design. If you could post those, we can surely help. (Also you should tell us if the image you will be working on is for screen or print.) One guesswork approach is using the clone tool to eliminate the old design and apply the new design by placing it on a new layer and perhaps using a blend mode to 'apply' it to the furniture.

I see you are using an iMac. Just out of curosity, what model? iMacs didn't have G4s and super drives until the first flat screen monitor versions. Are you lucky enough to have a 17"? How much RAM do you have installed and how much space on your hard drive? Also which OS?

I ask partly out of curiosity but also out of the practical consideration of the needs of Photoshop. It can use all the RAM you can throw at it and as much screen real estate (but hey, I've worked successfully on a Rev A iMac 384mb RAM and 1024 x 768). Then, with just one hard drive, you should know that Photoshop writes temporary files to the hard drive, quite a lot of them, depending on the image manipulations and size. In using your hard drive as a scratch disk, PS looks for the largest contiguous block of empty space and writes to that first, then the next and so on. What that means is that defragmenting your hard drive will help the performance of PS so it doesn't have to constantly be looking for fragmented scratch files. OS X, which I assume you are running, fragments the heck out of a drive. Normally it doesn't matter but with PS it does unless you have a specific partition or hard drive for a scratch disk. It doesn't mean you can't run PS, just that the performance will suffer.

Anyway, try to post an image if you can get the OK and we can try to give specific help.
 
as Welles said post us an example and we will help, it can be done [shhh]
 
THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH!

1st: No, I am using a 15" flat screen and my OS is Panther (upgrade).
How do I check how much RAM I have? And know also that I have a LaCie d2 117GB external hard-drive. I have been thinking of putting PS on that, but have not done so, yet. Do you think I should? Do you think it would help to partition it? I am using it mostly for storage at this time-- it still has 73.73 GB available. So I could run PS there AND have storage for jpegs...ones that I am working on,then burn to disk.

2nd: I have heard about defragmenting, but know NOTHING about how to go about it or why it might be necessary--could you elaborate?
I know that I have a lot to learn; But I am willing! I would like to have the best set-up possible to use PS to the best of my ability, knowing full well that PS is SO extensive that perhaps no ONE person may be able to fully master it!

3rd: Yes, I will get the images as soon as possible and, with your help and understanding, post them for your assistance! Never have posted
an image in a message board before.
Also, I was familiar with the clone stamp. but lack full knowledge of its use....

Thank you again, Welles and Rick for such a QUICK response!!! :}


--the prisoner
 
If you have photos of the furniture, to do what you want,
1. To remove the existing beaded pattern, try the Stamp Tool with a brush size slightly larger than the existing beads. Pick an area very close to the bead as a "cloning spot."

2. To create a new pattern, make a new layer, pick your brush size, and open the Brushes Palette. Uncheck "Shape Dynamics" and click the Brush Tip Shape option above it. Set the spacing to about 110%-125% (You will have to space to taste).
Now you can draw out the beaded design.

3. To give it a more "3d" effect (I do not know if the beads are inset or on top of the furniture), double click the bead layer in your Layers Palette to bring up the Layer Styles Palette, and double-click the Bevel and Emboss layer style. Adjust to taste.

Hope this helps!
 
Hello again, the prisoner,

How do I check how much RAM I have?
Click to expand...

Apple Menu > About this Mac. That window will tell you Processor and Memory info but there is a More Info... button which launches the System Profiler which is an application to display Hardware, Software, Network and Log information. Open the Hardware sub menu and you have all sorts of information available. For example, click on ATA and you will see your hard drive displayed. In the right bottom panel of the window is specific info including how much space is used and how much available.

About the RAM. If you have only 256MB of RAM installed, which was how that computer shipped, you should add a 512MB module costing about $120 or so. You can find it a bit cheaper. RAM will make all the difference in how PS runs.

So I could run PS there AND have storage for jpegs...
Click to expand...

I'd suggest running PS from your installed hard drive, not the external. Try using your LaCie as the primary scratch disk. This isn't an ideal setup as the external read/write is slower than the built in HD but it isn't a good idea, in my estimation to use your primary, unpartitioned hard drive for a scratch disk. Constantly writing and eliminating files on your boot drive should be avoided, if possible as that is the source of fragmentation. As you get seriously involved with PS, eventually you will partition your hard drive to have oh, a 20-30GB partition which is dedicated for a scratch disk. The partition or hard drive you use for Scratch Disk is chosen in the Photoshop preferences. Once you finish with a file, then copy it to your external for storage and trash the file on your main HD if you wish.

I have heard about defragmenting, but know NOTHING about how to go about it or why it might be necessary--could you elaborate?
Click to expand...

In the Mac operating system's file system, a data file over a certain size is stored in several "chunks" or fragments rather than in a single contiguous sequence of bits in one place on the storage medium, a process that is called fragmentation. That is because the hard drive is 'broken' up into allocation blocks for location reference points. This allows small unused sections of storage (for example, where old data has been deleted) to be reused. In the Mac OS files are fragmented and the location of the fragments for each file is kept in a file called the Directory.

Because fragmentation over time can slow data access (each fragment of a file must be accessed for the entire file to be read in), you may wish to buy a defragment utility so that the data on the hard drive can be reorganized. A good utility will allow you to defragment both the files first, and then the whole drive.

Now Panther does have built in defragmenting routines built into the system so if you don't need specialty 'scratch' space where temporary files are written, you don't need to worry about defragmenting at all. However, if you do use your primary, unpartitioned hard drive for a scratch disk, defragmentation can be a valuable tool to increase the speed of Photoshop writing and reading of temporary files.

If you did wish to get a utility which is the best general purpose set of tools for the Mac, I'd suggest TechTool Pro. It will rebuild the Directory and Optimize (defragment) the files on your hard drive. Another utility, DiskWarrior is a somewhat superior tool to do one job, rebuild the Directory but if Ijust bought one it would be TTPro 4.

One additional aside. Do you turn your computer off at night? Are you familiar with rebuilding permissions and running chron scripts? No? Hah, this little shareware utility is for you!

Macaroni
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/16593
 
Some more info...

O.K. I have the photos and will attach them in the following post.

But first a few other bits.
I would like to thank MsOz for her response:
Thank you and I have copied them for my future
reference!

Also to add answers to some of the computer questions Welles requested:
below is the Hardware Overview:

Hardware Overview:

Machine Model: iMac
CPU Type: PowerPC G4 (2.1)
Number Of CPUs: 1
CPU Speed: 800 MHz
L2 Cache (per CPU): 256 KB
Memory: 512 MB
Bus Speed: 100 MHz
Boot ROM Version: 4.4.1f1

In the memory option it states
DIMMO/J12: 256mb (size) SDRAM (Type) PC133-333 (Speed)
DIMMO/J13: " " "

Not sure what it meant, so thought I should include it as well.
When I first clicked the "About this Mac", I saw
Processor 800 MHz PowerPC G4
Memory 512 MB SDRAM
So I presume I will be getting MORE RAM in the near future! (hehehe)

I think I understand what you (Welles) were referring to about using the LaCie
as the scratch disk...I have a friend involved in Final Cut Pro, and last Saturday night
he was talking about that...so I will find out more and how to do that! Thanks for the
info!
Anything else?

As to the fragmentation: will using something like TechTool Pro aid in the performance
of the computer overall, as well as in PS? In either case, you are the third person to
recommend it; my birthday is 2 mos. away! It's on the list.

I already do have DiskWarrior!

Yes. I do turn the computer off at night; is this a bad thing? I will check out your link
to versiontracker. Is Macaroni anything like MacJanitor? My knowledge about rebuilding permissions is strictly elementary: I know it is. So you were right, again!

I am posting two pics: one is of the chair; the other is a family crest that will be beaded
into the chair back. As I mentioned this is but a blue-print, but can go further, i.e. more
patterns similar to the ones on the chair now. At first these will be used "in print". Later there will be a web-site, so then they will be for the screen. But when that happens I will be
shooting the finished bead work. So I will be putting the crest onto the chair after taking
out the existing patterns. Most likely using the white beads to cover the patterns?

I had no idea there would be any difference using PS for print or screen. I found that most
fascinating!

If you need more info, or I forgot something, I will be happy to provide what I can.

Thanks again for ALL the help

the prisoner
 
This is done in a whizz with Photoshop. First of all make sure that you have hi-rez images to work with. They need to be of better quality than the ones you posted if you want a good result.

I took the photo you wanted to insert. With the magic wand I selected the black background (which I assumed that you didn't want). Tolerance: 32 px and make sure that anti-alias and contiguous is checked. Click somewhere in the black area.

Goto Select > Modify > Contract and choose 1 px

Press Ctrl+Shift+I to invert the selection

Press Ctrl+C to copy the selection.

Open the image of the chair

Press Ctrl+V to paste

Place it where you like

Press Ctrl+T to transform it (shrink it?)


Hopefully this can be a start. There are many ways to improve the result.

Example made in 2 minutes (I took another chair since yours was too small) ;)
chair.jpg


/Moltas
 
First the computer issues. You have both RAM slots filled with 256 modules for a total of 512. That isn't huge but good enough for now. I wouldn't suggest replacing one of them with a 512mb module at this time. You would end up with a useless chip. In your Photoshop Preferences, Memory and Image Cache..., set your maximum memory to about 60% rather than the default 70% if you are going to run much more than the operating system and maybe one or two other smallish apps at the same time (Mail and Safari are smallish apps.) You can run a bunch but don't quite have enough memory to do so without possibly starving the system. Photoshop can use all the RAM you allow it!

To try using the LaCie as a scratch disk, (it is FireWire, I'm presuming) have it plugged in and turned on. In your Photoshop Preferences > Plug-ins and Scratch Disks. Choose your LaCie from the drop down menu next to "First". In the future, If you have lots of room on your installed hard drive and could optimize it (defrag) it would work a bit faster but I don't think you will notice the performance hit at present.

When you get TechTool Pro, give me a PM and I can give you some advice. For example run DiskWarrior first and then Optimize the disk because the Optimization routine will use the new Directory structure in it's reorganization.

There's nothing wrong with turning off your computer at night. I always do. However UNIX has a few maintenance routines which are automatically run early in the AM. Turning our computers off disrupts these routines. Macaroni does more than MacJanitor which runs those maintenance routines at a time of your choice but does it automatically. It performs the UNIX maintenance routines when ever your computer is on but the CPU isn't busy. In addition, it repairs Permissions once a week and you can have it eliminate useless language resources once a month. OS X and lots of applications come with many languages included in the resources. If you only use one primary language, you can eliminate all those others and save as much as a GB space on your hard drive. I always put Macaroni on all OS X computers I set up for other people and use it myself as I just forget about that maintenance stuff. ;)

Screen vs. Print. Here is a good article.

http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.asp?p=30070

As you surmised in your PM, we need larger images with which to work. I've included suggested instructions in my return PM.
 
:perfect: Thank you, Moltas...I have copied your input and have it in my project folder!!
Yes, you are right: we don't need the black background for what we are trying to do. I just knew I was going to need to learn about that magic wand!!!
 
prob with clone brush

It seems I have missed something in the use of the clone tool for
getting rid of the exsisiting pattern in the chair.

I take a sample-option/click- then go to put in down and it paints
the whole pattern of the chair. (See attachment.)

Can someone tell me what I missed?
I have had this trouble before [confused]

Thank you to ALL who are willing to help!!
 
I don't understand what you mean...

When you use the Clone tool you first left-click with your ALT key pressed (I'm talking PC here) to define the origin from where to duplicate. Now when you left-click you start cloning from that origin. Remember that the cloning is based on how the image looked before you started your cloning (hope you get what I mean)

It seems as if you have ALT-clicked on the right side of the chair and started the actual cloning in the middle. What did you want to accomplish and what went wrong? Could it be that you have misunderstood the function of this tool?

Colud you try to explain once again?
 
The problem lies in your original description. I thought you meant a small area of larger beads.

For what you now are describing, let's try again.
Use a small brush, and place it over a solid colored area to orient your clone source, and click the Alt key.
Make sure you have the aligned box UN-checked, this will keep your source in one spot.
Now, move the Stamp Tool where you want to cover the bead pattern. Left click once, move your Stamp Tool over, and click again. This clones just your source, and does not move it.

If the Aligned box is checked, your source will move as your Stamp Tool moves. If you hold down the left mouse button as you move your Stamp Tool with the box unchecked, the source will still move with your Stamp Tool. That is why you click, then move and click again.

The larger picture helps. I will work with it a bit and post the results for you.

MsOz
 
I just want to thank all those here who have offered their helpful advice. Well done members! :} :perfect:
 
Attempt to clarify...

Thank you all for sticking with me in my attempt to understand!!!

I have never tried to learn in this fashion before--thru a message board, typing to describe a visual; it is a different approach which I think will make certain that I 'get it' in the end!!!

For Moltas: I am attempting to cover the existing bead pattern with
a plain bead- to hide the pattern- so I can then drop in the pattern I want: some on the back, some on the arms and still others for along the skirt.

This is going to be used for the beaders in Africa to follow when they are crafting the next set of chairs--like a blueprint for them to follow.

When I took my sample- I used a section of plain white beads seen in the pattern- but I guess it was not big enough; for when I went to lay it down it tracked INTO the patterns ALONG side of where I took my sample.

For MsOz, yes, I realized that I must have been lacking in my attempt to use words...I also realized about the Aligned box being checked, but it seems that even unchecked it still tracked into the pattern along side. I have had this problem before...tried to figure it, (and other problems encountered), by myself. But thought NOW was a GOOD time to ask for help...

For you both, I know that 'alt' is called 'option' on the Mac, and that 'sometimes' left click is one click for me and right click is a double click...and sometimes it is not...if I understand what some others have told me!

So I want to replace the existing patterns with the patterns from cloth I will be receiving samples of. I guess I could just paint over them and then drop in the new ones, but thought cloning was a good idea and one I should know in either case.

MsOz, I think you may have gotten thru to me with the part where you say:" Now, move the Stamp Tool where you want to cover the bead pattern. Left click once, move your Stamp Tool over, and click again. This clones just your source, and does not move it." Only I have no left or right click; just one click or two OR a control click, which I think may be the Mac answer for what you are suggesting. I will give this a try. Your suggestion makes alot of sense in that way!!!!!

I am also glad you found the larger pics. I was woriied that there might be a dis-connect starting a new thread; but Welles said people would find it!

And to theKeeper, YES!!! You have an amazing place here with amazing people taking part in what all is going on. I hope to one day be able to give back to the community in an equal way. The people I am doing this for are SO impressed that there are people willing to do this for those they do not know. And I am learning SO MUCH; not just about P/S, but about computers, the community and that there are some things right in this world! You provide something very special!
 
Hi the prisoner. Sorry I haven't chimed in for a day or two but I'm busy starting a new job and am having a time getting my mind around it! Sorry I wasn't clear on posting those larger pictures. I had intended the suggestion that you put a new post in this thread rather than editing your first post and adding the newly resized images. I'd never even considered starting a new one. Oh well... it will work out. Sometimes written communication is awkward... ;)

When Windows people tell you Right click, that translates to Control + Click on your Mac. (Unless, of course they are left handed and.... [confused] )

A thought on cloning. You can use a second image as the source for your clone. For example, if your friend has another picture closer to the pattern he wants you could clone from that. Open both images. Click on the source image to activate it. Control click on the area you wish to clone. Activate your working picture and clone away. Once you are done, you may have to recreate shadows along the edges of the chair. Select the areas for shadows. Try using the Burn tool with a soft brush and lower the Exposure setting in the options bar. Sometime that does a great job of instant shadows.

Don't forget to zoom in on the image when you are working on it. Also if you want to make sure your change affects only certain areas, make selections. You can save selections in the Channels palette for later use (for example the outline of the chair or various parts) by first creating the selection and then clicking on the "Save Selection as Channel" button at the bottom of the channels palette. You can then reuse the selection by highlighting the channel in which you saved a particular selection, use the "Load channel as selection" button and there you have it!

It turns out that you have taken on a fairly complex project. Even if you feel that you are struggling this is the best way to learn Photoshop. Also when you succeed the level of satisfaction is immense! Hang in there!

(I had a old KPT plugin called Scene Builder which had a model of an arm chair in it. I plunked the second image your friend gave you in the back just for fun.)

Cheers!
 
Hey,Welles...no problem!! I understand completely; that people are willing to take time from their lives and participate in a place such as this out of the goodness of their hearts IS REMARKABLE!! Good luck with your endeavor. And thank you for ALL that you have already done! I have learned so much.

Yes! Communication of any kind can be difficult ;)

Understood now on the left/right click~ thanks again!

Funny, I was just saying last night to my friend that it might be easier
if I could take another snap of one of the chairs...he has one that is done in ALL white beads!!! Thinking that I would use it for my source; see what influence you have unknowingly had already?!

The shadow move is a good touch~ thanks again!

I have another friend who is using Final-Cut Pro and he too suggested moving in tight for the work: got ya! makes absolute sense.

Have NO WORRIES: with all the time you and the others have invested, and the fact that I am one stubborn cuss-(or is that obsessive?!), I would never think of giving up!!!

So now that I have responded, I'm off to experiment/explore!!

Thanks again, everyone! 8))
 
Another point for you to consider.
Now that we have a better idea what you are trying to accomplish, let us focus for a moment on your desired pattern.
Are these being done in "seed" beads, or larger ones?
If done in the small seed beads, you should make a nice, clear, sharply defined image that can be cut into "fill" templates.
If the beads are of any specific diameter (say 1/4 inch), you should make an image with a 1/4 inch grid to show how many yellow beads, and then how many red beads, etc. in a row would be used.

Glad we're able to help you out!
Keep us updated!
 
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