Saving for the Web - Color Question

[C9Mouse]

Lately, when I save an image for the Web, I notice a significant difference in the color of the saved image and the one I originally designed in Photoshop.

The saved image seems faded, washed out, while the one I made in Photoshop looks crisp, clean, and very colorful.

I have spent a great deal of time fiddling with the tools and setting in the Save for Web dialogue box, but I can't seem to overcome this problem.

I would appreciate any suggestions or advice anyone has. Have you experienced this problem and figured out how to solve it?


NOTE: I wanted to add that I just recently installed a new scanner, and it was only after installing the scanner that I started to get the following warning message whenever I open Photoshop:

The monitor profile "" appears to be defective. Please rerun your monitor calibration software.

I thought I should mention this, because the Adobe website recommends that I reset my monitor calibration using an application called Adobe Gamma. Anyone know where I can get this Adobe Gamma program?

Also, I have never had to set my monitor calibration settings. Any help in this area would be appreciated also.

 

[wbiss]

Quick and dirty 'cause I gotta run.... Adobe Gamma is automatically installed when you install Photoshop, Doug. Go to your control panel and you'll see the programme!

Also, I don't have a lot of experience with your particular problem because when designing for web, I always choose the web-safe colour palette.

I'm confident that there are others here with greater experience/expertise who will be sure to jump in and help you out.

 

[C9Mouse]

I managed to fix the color problem - not completely satisfied with the results, but at least now what I see on the Web matches what I see in Photoshop.

My monitor is a KDS Visual Sensations VS-7p. I went to their web site to check out if they had any documentation or perhaps some downloads (drivers, etc.). There was no help there for calibration or anything.

So I tried using the Nokia test program from this web page: http://www.freepctech.com/rode/004.shtml

I would like to know how to make a color profile or whatever it is Photoshop keeps asking for. Seems to be a real pain-in-the-arse, whatever it is.

 

[theKeeper]

ICM is what you're looking for Doug. And your monitor manufacturer SHOULD have one for you; either in ICM format or as a driver install.

You can't make the file yourself. It's made by the manufacturer.

If you don't have one, then try using the Adobe sRGB profile, within Photoshop (not for your system). That's designed for Web graphics.

As for the colour/quality loss... that's life, on the Web... it's called compression... you don't have to love it, but get to know it.

Your initial problem sounds like your scanner installed it's own profile and i think that's what PS was whining about. Open your Display properties, and click on Advanced, then Color Management. See what's listed in the "Color Profile" box.

 

[C9Mouse]

I don't know what ICM is, but I did go to the KDS website and downloaded the drivers for my monitor. It said on the website that the driver file was Windows XP compliant, but when I went to install the drivers a warning message popped up telling me they were NOT compliant (the warning message said they were not "digitally signed" and therefore would cause harm to the system).

Photoshop is already set to the sRGB profile, Mark - and I still get the "...monitor profile "" appears to be defective..." message.

 

[wbiss]

C9Mouse:I would like to know how to make a color profile or whatever it is Photoshop keeps asking for.

I don't know what ICM is

I don't know what ICM is either [confused] , but I know that you can quickly and easily create a color profile using Adobe Gamma.

I hope that this brief article is of some help to you, Doug http://epaperpress.com/monitorcal/index.html

 

[C9Mouse]

The article was cool, Wendy, but the Adobe Gamma program is pretty useless. I have tried several dozen times to use it, but the results and the method of setting them leave much to be desired.

What helped me the most was the Nokia Test program (the program can be aquired from the link I already provided above). This was a lot more in-depth and helpful than the Adobe thing.

First off, the things the Adobe Gamma program asks I haven't a clue to answer in the first place - like the daylight warmth settings, etc. Also, having nothing to compare my results to (I have to have something that looks "correct" before I can compare it to something that looks "bad") I haven't a clue if I'm getting the correct results or not.

The Nokia Test program was the biggest help, but thanks anyway.

 

[theKeeper]

the warning message said they were not "digitally signed" and therefore would cause harm to the system

That's not true Doug, not at all. All it means is that MS hasn't
stamped" them that's all... install them.

 

[MindBender]

Well, take heart... color calibration is one of the more finicky and deceptively complex things to do. The first few times you do it, it will seem confusing and probably turn out incorrect.

Some things to keep in mind. LCD's done deal the same way as CRT's do. They don't really have the same ability to shift white points as CRT's so you are really just balancing the color and not so much of the luminocity.

CRT's need to warm up for at least 30 minutes before you start the process or the settings will be wrong.

Make sure you don't have a crazy desktop pattern. I like to set mine to solid 50% grey and change my windows to the same so that they don't influence my color perception.

Make sure the lighting in the room is how you normally work. If you don't have that light on usually, turn it off. If you usually work at night with only a scented candle... calibrate under those circumstances. Bear in mind that if you are working like that, you might want to consider changing your work habits as a lack or overabundance of light can adversely effect your color perception anyway.

If you have a specific color profile for your monitor, make sure it's loaded and that you are using those phosphers as a starting point in Adobe Gamma (or whatever color calibrator you use).

Don't be afraid to recalibrate. Just rename your profiles with something that you'll remember. Since you should recalibrate frequently (every 3-6 months for a new monitor, more often for an older one) I like to use a date system. I list the method and date of calibration. So Adobe Gamma calibrated on February 10th would be AG 02.10.03 while color sync calibrated becomes CS 02.10.03.

Make sure you change the color settings in your software to match. You can color calibrate until pigs fly, but if you don't tell Photoshop to use those settings, it's useless. Go into your color settings in Photoshop and tell it that it needs to use the correct profiles for color.

If you are using the "expert" or "advanced" mode in your color calibrator, quit it. Until you really learn how things become effected by the calibration, stick with the step by step method.

That's about all I can think of right off... aside from maybe having someone who knows the ropes walk you through it once or twice. I spent a whole day on color calibration in my Photoshop class making sure my students could at least walk through the process and get some noticable results out of it.

I hope that helps some. [confused]

 

[C9Mouse]

Mark, I did install them, but it screwed with my system and I had to revert back to the drivers XP originally used.

MB, while I appreciate the long post, I haven't a clue what you're talking about. If you explain HOW to do what you're talking about, then it will be more helpful. For instance - tell me where to find my "color calibrator", or how to get one and how to use it.

Obviously you are one who could "walk me through it", if you so choose. I would appreciate it. Thanks.

 

[C9Mouse]

I believe I may need a new monitor. I've noticed that text in the corners of my screen is very blurry. I haven't a clue how to fix this. Maybe it means my monitor is going bad. I really don't know.

I do know this - when I look at something I've designed in Photoshop on the monitor at work it looks entirely different than it did on my own monitor at home. I'm not talking about slight variations in color, resolution or settings, either. At home when I finish a design I check it very carefully before I save it for the Web, but at work on the monitor there I see stuff I should not have missed.

Hopefully, if I do need a new monitor, I can find one that has its own calibration software.

 

[MindBender]

If you are experiencing blurring in the corners of your monitor there are most likely one of two things going on.

1. Your monitor is building up a magnetic charge and should be degaussed. This is usually taken care of by the monitor when you shut the power off then on (not always, but usually on newer models). Often they will have a degauss function built into the monitor that you can activate via a menu or button.

2. Your monitor is going bad.

To prolong the life of a monitor it's best to keep it away from being banged, or from around moisture and humidity. Keep the temperature in the general area down (make sure there is pleny of ventilation, CRT monitors get hot, lcd's not as much). Make sure any weird magnetic sources are not near the monitor... things like stereo speakers and phones are common culprets for causing distortion and damage to a monitor... but I've even seen times when people stuck kitchen magnets to the side of computers to decorate them... or accidentally dropped one of those magnetic paper clip olders behind a screen without realizing it and it screwed things up.

As for doing the calibration, Adobe was kind enough to provide a little application called "adobe gamma" with your adobe installations (They all pretty much install it when you install their software). Just double click that bad boy and run through the step by step instructions. It just takes practice.

 

[C9Mouse]

I know to degauss the monitor. I've been doing that for a while now. So it isn't the degauss. Also, earlier in this thread I mentioned that I thought the Adobe Gamma utility was about as useful as a hole in the head. I've tried using it and instead found a better program, called Nokia Test (the link for it is back there in the beginning of this thread).

 

[Chester]

C9, did you check following options?

 

[C9Mouse]

That doesn't address my monitor color problems, but that is definitely a heads up on something I WASN'T doing when I saved images for the Web.

When I looked at that option in the Save for Web dialogue box I had Uncompensated Color checked. I changed that to Standard Windows Color.

Thanks, Chester

 

[MindBender]

Also, earlier in this thread I mentioned that I thought the Adobe Gamma utility was about as useful as a hole in the head. I've tried using it and instead found a better program, called Nokia Test...

I know, which is why I tried to offer some helpful advice on using that particular app. I have never used the nokia one that you mentioned, so I have no idea how it works or how well it performs. I have used AG a lot and I can tell you that it does do the job once you get used to using it. It takes a lot of practice to really get the feel for dealing with color, it's a sticky and complex issue that few people really can fully wrap their head around, so take that into account. Not saying you're stupid, it's just complex.

Some of the things I mentioned should apply to any color calibration, and you should definately check your color settings in photoshop to ensure that whatever calibration you perform is actually being used by photoshop. Doesn't matter what software you use to generate the color profile, you still have to tell photoshop to use it. ctrl+shift+k ... check it out.

Chester points out another good place to check. Also, checking that you don't have on some kind of color profile preview that you don't want while you're working would be a good thing to check. Check what preview mode you are in if you are in one. Since web browsers don't, for the most part, use color profile adjustment to view color, anything you set as a preview in photoshop would be showing you the incorrect information.

Don't discount that you might be having hardware failure. The best thing to do is try to color calibrate, but see if possibly you can attach to another monitor to test with. From what you describe, it's not outside the realm of possibility that you're having hardware failure.

I think though, that the fact you installed a scanner and are now having issues with color is a bit suspicious... I would lay odds that the color profiles are to blame for at least the majority of the problem.

 

[C9Mouse]

Oh, I appreciate your advice, MB. It's just that I don't see anything very complex about the Adobe Gamma program. It's basically a no-brainer. I would just like to get my hands on a real grown-up calibration program - ha!

Indeed, as I am finding out, color is quite the migraine. I would have thought it would be another no-brainer, but I should have known better. Working with PS now for a year and a half I have run into the issue of color in many areas of design work. There's designing for print, where CMYK color knowledge comes into play, and then there's the whole PS color-profile-I'm-not-a-dang-interior-decorator headache.

As far as Preview mode in PS, I'm not sure what you mean. When I'm working on a project I always have the view set to Actual Pixels. Is that what you meant?

Again, when you mention "color calibrate", you mean with the Adobe Gamma? I'm not clear on this. From what I have tried using AG it seems like a pretty simple-minded program. I don't see hardly any difference once I'm done screwing around with it, so I'm not even sure it's doing me any good.

As for the hardware issue I really think I need a new monitor. I've done some homework over the last week, checking out monitors and their specs - as a graphic designer I know I need a flat screen shadow mask CRT monitor (not anistropic), with anywhere between 0.20 to 0.28mm dot pitch (preferrably a 0.25mm).

My computer guy has come to my rescue once again by offering to set me up with one of these babies and just make payments on it. Although, from what I've seen, they really aren't all that expensive.

And yes, I think the new scanner did some anonymous tweaking of its own. I installed a new Canon LiDE 20. Would you know any way for me to find out if it did install its own color profile or settings on my machine? It seems the color profile warning box in PS started popping up right after I installed this scanner.

I appreciate everyone's help. Erik, Chester, everyone ... thanks.