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Issue with darks appearing lighter in Photoshop (vs lightroom or Apple's Preview)


AoxoA

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When I open a file to view in Photoshop the blacks are lighter (or the contrast is reduced).

1) This happens when I choose to edit file to Photoshop from Lightroom. The image in Photoshop looks different than in lightroom. The blacks have more detail and seem to have less contrast in Photoshop.

2) If I export the original file from LR to a jpeg or tiff the file always matches what I see in lightroom (using Apple Preview to view the exported image). If I save the original file to a jpeg or tiff from Photoshop and then view it with Apple’s Preview the file does not match the view in Photoshop. It always matches what I see in Lightroom.

3) When I open a file in Photoshop and open it in Apple’s Preview. Same thing. The Photoshop view is lighter in the blacks with less contrast.

here is a screen shot example:
issue with PS blacks.jpg

It is actually more of a difference than this screen grab depicts but you can still see a difference. Top one is Preview and the bottom one is photoshop. Lightroom would also look like the preview.

These are the things I checked:

  • I calibrated the monitor (v2 not V4). Photoshop is accepting the calibration.
  • Lightroom and Photoshop use the same profile settings, etc.…
  • Same result doing a 1:1 in LR’s develop module and preview size 100% in Photoshop.

This is my system data:

  • Mac OS X 10.8.5
  • Lightroom 4.4.1 with Camera Raw 7.4
  • Photoshop CS6 Extended Version 13.0.6 x64 with Camera Raw 8.8.0.397

I have tried to google this issue but so far I have not been able to find a solution. Thanks in advanced for any guidance.
 
Last edited:

Tom Mann

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I see the problem. (Thanks for nicely including the gray scale steps so I could easily measure the tonal values in both cases.)

It could be any of a number of things, but, to start off, I'm going to take a wild guess and hope for a home run on the first shot, LOL.

I could be completely wrong, but my 1st guess is that in LR, you have your external editing preferences set to output to PS using one color space. In my case, I have it set to export to PS in ProPhoto ...

2015-04-21_051607-LR_external_editing_preferences.jpg

And that you have PS set up so that it doesn't inform / ask you if it spots a color space mismatch, i.e., NOT the way I have mine set up ...

2015-04-21_051248-PS_color_setting_questions.jpg


So that you never see a warning dialog box like this ...

2015-04-21_051028.jpg

In which case, LR will automatically do two color space conversions. First, from LR's very wide gamut internal working space TO the export space you requested, and finally, TO the working color space you have specified in PS.

The net result is that because these color space conversions are usually pretty accurate, except in the extremes of tonal ranges and with OOG (out of gamut) colors, you won't see a huge difference, especially in the mid and lighter tones, but there will be definite differences in the darker areas.

Does this sound like what might be going on?

If so, an easy way to check is to (a) set LR to export to PS using ProPhoto, (b) turn the warnings on (it they weren't already), and (c) set the working space for PS to also be ProPhoto, and do a test with an image that has been giving you trouble. If this was the problem, you should see no difference between when you view the image in LR or view it in PS.

HTH,

Tom M
 

AoxoA

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Thanks for the reply. My setting are sync up, so that is not the issue.

Here is a 5 minute video showing what I know so far. You can change the quality setting to 1080p HD.

[video=youtube;n]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n**qnnhEWqE[/video]

Before I made the video (above), I made a brand new profile-recalibration. I am using a Spyder2Pro as the calibration device. I have a Eizo CG234W that uses ColorNavigator app (Version 5.4.3(1) to run the Spyder and set the profile. The ColorNavigator software doesn't have options for matrix vs LUT.

Here are the screen grabs of creating a new profile:

2uo71bc.png


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20if7ts.png


adcak3.png


rlg8ie.png


290zrex.png


331k2et.png


eb7mna.png


2i0dveo.png


2m4shfd.png
 

AoxoA

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Other sources think it is an issue with the profile created by the old Spyder2Pro and old ColorNavigator software. The default for newer ColorNavigator software is a LUT and gives an option to switch it to a matrix profile. It is assumed the since the older ColorNavigator does not have the option, the default is also LUT. I probably need a matrix profile.

The Spyder2Pro is not recognized by the newer ColorNavigator software. My operating system will no longer install the software that came with Spyder2Pro.

Looking to buy a new calibration device.....

___________________________

A recap and more trouble shooting:

The image in Photoshop looks different than in lightroom. In Photoshop I get lighter blacks and/or less contrast.

  • If I export the original file from LR to a jpeg or tiff the file always matches what I see in lightroom (using Apple Preview to view the exported image).
  • If I save the original file to a jpeg or tiff from Photoshop and then view it with Apple’s Preview the file does not match the view in Photoshop. It always matches what I see in Lightroom.
  • When I open a file in Photoshop and open it in Apple’s Preview. Same thing. The Photoshop view is lighter in the blacks with less contrast.

These are the things I checked:

  • I calibrated monitor. Made a new profile to avoid any corruption issues.
  • Calibrated monitor profile is V2
  • Photoshop recognizes the calibration (don’t know if it uses it).
  • Lightroom and Photoshop use the same profile settings (color space, etc.…)
  • Comparisons made with 1:1 in LR’s develop module and preview size 100% in Photoshop.
  • Photoshop Proof Colors and Gamut Warnings are disabled and not activated
  • Same problem if I export to JPEG and then open the file in PS
  • If I save the photo in PS, and then view it in LR, it matches the original LR version.
  • Opened an sRGB JPEG file directly into each program (i.e. not export or edit in PS) – They do not match.
  • I see the same issues in see the same in Adobe RGB/sRGB as I do in ProPhoto RGB
  • Same issue no matter how I set the Graphics Processor Settings (disabling the GPU or setting to Basic, etc…)
  • Created another profile. Restarted the computer. Restarted again zaping the p-ram. Didn't help.
  • Ran a NEF through the paces and the result is the same as the Tiff and Jpeg.
 
Last edited:

Tom Mann

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A few questions:

1. What do you mean by the following statement?

These are the things I checked:

  • ...
  • Photoshop recognizes the calibration (don’t know if it uses it).
  • ...
Do you mean that you can see the monitor calibration profile in the list of profiles that appears when you select the working color space in PS, or something else?

---------------------

2. I am concerned about this statement

"...Lightroom and Photoshop use the same profile settings (color space, etc.…)..."

because one can't change the working color space for LR. It's permanently set to be a proprietary space that is similar to ProFoto.

In LR, as far as I can remember, the only places you can change the color space is in the export, external editor, and proofing setting. Since you see a difference between LR and PS when you have both programs display the same sRGB JPG file, none of these settings in LR come into play.

---------------------

3. I can't see your video. I get an error.

--------------------

4. Could you please post a screen grab of this screen on your installation of PS (as you normally use it).

--------------------

5. Why are you emphasizing the monitor calibration so much? Even if the monitor profile is terrible (but is installed in the correct way), it will affect both LR and PS equally. Neither PS nor LR make any direct use of it. It is only used by your OS / hardware to convert the numbers that represent colors that are heading out of your system on their way to your monitor. The same path is used by both LR and PS.

Also, I realize you were probably talking about this just to be complete, but whether the monitor profile is stored in your graphics card or in your monitor, or whether it is stored in the form of a LUT, a matrix, or a functional representation (which I believe is allowed under the ICC standard) is also completely irrelevant to a discussion of a difference between what you see on your monitor with LR and what you see with PS.

--------------------

This is an interesting problem. Let's see if we can get to the bottom of it.

Cheers,

Tom M
 

Tom Mann

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OK, Chris - I found your video and looked at it. For others who may be interested, the link that worked for me was:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n**qnnhEWqE

Thank you - it answered quite a few questions.

I realize that you are going on a trip, but if you have a moment or two before you go, or when you return, I would like you to try something.

Attached is a small sRGB JPG file. It is completely filled with RGB = 15,15,15 pixels.

First, could you please open the file in LR, do a screen grab of the very dark square, then load the screen grab in PS, and then use PS's eyedropper tool to read off the rgb value and post the result.

Next, do almost the same thing, except first open the file in PS (not LR). Be absolutely sure that in PS, your working color space is set to sRGB, and make sure the profile mismatch warning dialog box doesn't appear. Next, do a screen grab, just like you did in LR, then load the screen grab back into PS, read off its rgb value, and then finally, post that result as well.

By doing a controlled experiment like this, we get back to basics, and hopefully will be able to determine if the problem is with LR, PS, or possibly both or neither, and we (temporarily) avoid all the issues associated with moving an image LR to PS. We also find out how large the discrepancy is if present under these conditions.

Thanks,

Tom
 

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Last edited:

Tom Mann

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Hey, Chris - I see that you are also talking with Andrew Rodney about your problem. If he can't figure it out, no one can, so I'm just going to sit on the sidelines unless called. BTW, my test with the 15,15,15, file will answer some of the questions raised over on Luminous about clipping and whether LR or PS is "right".

Cheers,

Tom M
 

AoxoA

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I realize that you are going on a trip, but if you have a moment or two before you go, or when you return, I would like you to try something.

Attached is a small sRGB JPG file. It is completely filled with RGB = 15,15,15 pixels.

First, could you please open the file in LR, do a screen grab of the very dark square, then load the screen grab in PS, and then use PS's eyedropper tool to read off the rgb value and post the result.

Next, do almost the same thing, except first open the file in PS (not LR). Be absolutely sure that in PS, your working color space is set to sRGB, and make sure the profile mismatch warning dialog box doesn't appear. Next, do a screen grab, just like you did in LR, then load the screen grab back into PS, read off its rgb value, and then finally, post that result as well.

By doing a controlled experiment like this, we get back to basics, and hopefully will be able to determine if the problem is with LR, PS, or possibly both or neither, and we (temporarily) avoid all the issues associated with moving an image LR to PS. We also find out how large the discrepancy is if present under these conditions.

Thanks,

Tom
I will do this when I get back. I am about to leave and won't have access to my computer, etc...
 

AoxoA

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[FONT=&quot]Couple of things about the test: [/FONT]
1. [FONT=&quot]the file is in Adobe RGB and not sure if you wanted it in sRGB[/FONT]
2. [FONT=&quot] If I do a screen grab (Command/Shift 4 on a Mac) it saves the file as a .png using the monitor profile as the color space.[/FONT]
3. [FONT=&quot]if I capture the screen grab using a Grab App it will save it as a .tiff with no color managing.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Because of those issues I ended up doing a bunch of test. It is too much to type that I did a vid:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]https://youtu.be/6x7B_d_tehc[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

If the link doesn't work: Search Youtube for the “AoxoA Hooper” Channel. The vid is called “Continued Test for Photoshop issue with Blacks “
 

AoxoA

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I got a new calibration device (X-Rite i1 Display 3 / Pro (i1D3). Therefore, I was able to upgrade the software to ColorNavigator 6 Version 6.4.9.20. Went through the manual set up in ColorNavigator and used V2.2 and set tone curve to Gamma Value (matrix).

CNprofile.png

Now Lightroom 4, Photoshop CS6 and Preview are basically identical. I consider the problem solved.

Interestingly, it was Lightroom and Preview that changed the most with the new profile. I made two profiles (one with the default LUT and the other with changes to matrix, etc...). I can switch between the two profile and observe the results. Photoshop does have some shifts when going from LUT to Matrix but nowhere near as much as lightroom and Preview. So, it seems that Photoshop was always the closest to a correct image display.

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to help.
 

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