Duplicating layers with different opacity problem

[Instant]

Hi,

I'm a portrait photographer and I have learned some new techniques that require me to make some adjustments/apply filters/etc, on a background duplicate layer and then to tone down the effect that I've created by lowering the opacity of that new layer. Then, the guy flattens the image and proceeds to the next step in his editing workflow.

The problem I have is that I absolutely hate flattening an image because once it's done, you can't go back and tweak it. Since the top layer is not 100% opacity, I cannot duplicate it and use it to continue without flattening.

Is there a way around this problem? I really want to work in a non-destructive way and be able to go back and change/tweak any of my different layers if need be.

Thank you very much for any help/pointers you can provide.

Best regards,

Instant

 

[SeniorS]

What workflow? ... Some people so much get used to use jpg format that they just flatern everything even without any actual need.
Don't knowing about details i can say how i handle that kind of problem.
First of all trying to work with TIFF or PSD (windows usually don't want to show thumbnail of it so i preffer TIFF).
With TIFF can save everthing (almost) all layers, all adjusments layers and so and on and what is very important for me it supports transparancy so there's almost no reason to make complicate and sharp path. And all flaterning is done by other soft when its come to output (for my case Indesign generate printable PDF).
If your guy HAVE to flatern it then only sugestion is make your own TIFF copy it will cost a very large amount of memory but now it's relativy cheap.

 

[Steve]

Hi Instant and welcome to PSG.

Sometimes you need to combine all the layers to do additional editing but it doesn't mean you need to flatten the image.

Lets say you have 4 layers, all visible.
You can "Stamp Visible" with Ctrl+Alt+Shift+E, Cmd+Option+Shift+E on a Mac (I think).
That will create a new composite layer of all the visible layers without deleting the the original 4.

Your guy can work on that new layer but you still have all your original layers.

 

[Instant]

Steve,

Interesting. I didn't know that method. Now, SeniorS is right and I should have given a more detailed example of what this guy's workflow is like. This is something he does to adjust the skin tone and contrast using 3 different adjustment layers:

1. He creates a new adjustment layer with "Channel Mixer" and reduces the opacity of that layer to about 40%
2. He creates another adjustment layer with Channel mixer but this time, he changes the blend mode to screen. Then, again, he reduces the opacity to his desire.
3. Same process as above but now the blend mode is set to multiply and again, he changes the opacity of that layer to his desire.
4. He then groups all those layers together using "Layer Group" and then again, changes the opacity of the entire group to a lower setting!
5. Finally, once he is satisfied, he flattens everything.

Point #5 is my problem. Because of all the other processing he does, I find that sometimes, after all is done, I might want to go back and change that "skin tone and contrast" group to get a better overall result, but because he flatten everything, no can do!

Basically, everything he does is flatten all the time. His techniques are very interesting but the flattening renders them unsuitable for tweaking... almost like working directly on the background layer, which in my opinion is just about the worst thing one can do.

As for the format I use, I only shoot in RAW, and only work in PSD format. I have PS CS5 Extended. I only transform to jpeg once I'm done and ready to hand the product to the model/company.

I hope this makes my problem a bit clearer.

Kindest regards

 

[SeniorS]

In that case You can do just two things.
First ask him not to flatern (intresting tone correction will try it) or second - make copy.
If you exchange your works through shared disc or server then (if you have permision to change permissions) you can restrict "modify" file permission (or something like that). Then your guy can read file but will not be able to save over it but thats all depends on file system. So you will have two copies one with his job (flatern) done and one yours (but not with skin corrected). Little bit uncomfortable but thats exclude posibility to damage unrestoreable.

 

[Instant]

SeniorS, you cannot make a copy of a layer that is not 100% opacity and work on it. When you copy a layer, you copy also its attributes, opacity being one of them.

My question is, if I use Steve's method and Stamp Visible the layers, that new created layer will be 100%? If so, and I keep working based on that new top layer, if I go back and change something on the layers that were combined with the Stamp Visible, will the resulting layer change accordingly?

Ex: I do what I explain previously (the tone and contrast adjustment with 3 layers. I then use Steve's solution and Stamp Visible all 3 layers, thus creating a new layer above it at 100% opacity. I then continue and do another layer... say I apply a sharpening layer. If for some reason I go back and change one of the 3 adjustment Channel Mixer layer, will that change be visible or not with the above layers visible as well?

Thanks in advance.

 

[SeniorS]

No, changes will not "visible". Think of that new layer as new separate jpg (for example) file. Like you just happens to open file to edit it. So no way back to change Channel Mixer and continue work with that combained layer but you can make a new one anytime.

 

[Instant]

Then my initial question remains: How can I work around this problem... if at all possible?

 

[SeniorS]

From my point of view general soution is make copy my way or Steve's or combine it, like, copy flaterened image over your own and save all of it. Because if its flaterened at some point of workflow then its flaterened for good. But i just give just 99% sure of it.

 

[hawkeye]

I don't quite understand the problem, who is this guy who is flattening your psd files? If you need to hand off your work to someone else for additional editing, just rename and save a copy of the psd first for yourself. Then you can go back and do whatever you wish, regardless of what the guy does.

 

[Instant]

I don't quite understand the problem, who is this guy who is flattening your psd files? If you need to hand off your work to someone else for additional editing, just rename and save a copy of the psd first for yourself. Then you can go back and do whatever you wish, regardless of what the guy does.

No, no. I do not hand out my work to anyone. I do the edit myself. I'm just using another guy's technique but I find it is not appropriate because of all the flattening he does.

I'm the only one editing my pictures.

 

[hawkeye]

No, no. I do not hand out my work to anyone. I do the edit myself. I'm just using another guy's technique but I find it is not appropriate because of all the flattening he does.

I'm the only one editing my pictures.

I don't recommend his technique. If you really need to flatten an image, and there are times, make another copy first.

In the bottom of the history palette the far left icon will create a new document from the current state including all the layers, then you can flatten this new copy and keep the original in tact.

The middle icon will create a snapshot of the current state, to which you can return later if necessary. You can create more than one of these snapshots if you wish as your work progresses. Note: These snapshots are lost if you close the image.

 

[iDad]

like hawk said, just save the files with layers before starting edits ie:flat psd "name" one file #2 file layered psd"name"..........

 

[Instant]

Hawkeye

I agree that his technique, the flattening part of it, sucks... but in terms of results, I have to admit that this guy knows what he's doing. So I do not wish to dismiss his technique but I really wish that someone could tell me how to work around this problem, without flattening, without taking snapshots... that would only revert my work to a previous state and lose all that was done after??? or if it's not the case, will the mods made on that "snapshot" apply on the actual present state of the work?

I'm starting to wonder if what I am asking is even at all possible....

 

[hawkeye]

Why not just ask him why he flattens the image? Is there a actual reason he needs to do it, or is it just a habit? Everyone here is saying the same thing, make a second copy if you need to flatten the image. That way you can always go back, that is the workaround. For some reason you seem adverse to the second copy solution.

 

[Instant]

Hawkeye,

Sorry if I come out as adverse to this copy solution.... it's just that I honestly don't know how this would help me. Maybe I'm a bit "thick" and I would appreciate if you'd be kind enough to put your solution in context and explain it to me.

Thx mate!

PS: I think it's pretty obvious why he flattens his work... it's his work around that problem. I do not wish to do that because a flatten image cannot be changed/edited.

 

[hawkeye]

It's not obvious to me at all why he needs to flatten the entire image, and you haven't said why. If I knew the why of it, (perhaps an example) it would be easier to help.

 

[SeniorS]

So i think i got it and it's probably crazy.
So algorimt would look like:
1. make new group with "background" image name ir "ground Zero"
2. do all you can do without needed to flattern image (at some point it could happend)...all undestractive stuff...opacity/chanell mixer and so on.
3 . now you NEED image to be plain...merge all that group (just that group) in new layer, name it background2
4. make new group call it group2 put background2 in it.
5. do all you want and can do without flattering image or part of it.
Now you need plain it again for some reason (don't know what).
6. do what 1. said but call group3 and background3.
and so on and on until you finish

So what to do if you noticed that you need change let say something in ground Zero?

.....just do it!

Now merge that ground Zero to new layer (just that group) name it background2 and replace background2 in group2
if you have group3 then do merge group2 (just group2) and name it background3 and replace it un group3....and so on on
hope you get a point.

the last merged group is result!

(group can be merged by holding ALT+ choosing Merge Group.

In that case you have all posible adjustments alive but most of all isn't "active" but with some action you "alive them".

I don't think that if there just a few adjustments that it's worth it but if you have hundreds then it could help.

You can make mask to some group but it will make it more dificcult to understand what a hell is going on.

Still think it's crazy but should work.

 

[dv8_fx]

I had this same problem years ago with co-designer... he flattens things...

I assume you guys to be working on one computer?

A SIMPLE SOLUTION .... we would not flatten the file done by the other guy. PERIOD. ...lol .... If there's a need to flatten, we save the file with different names.

We'd save our work files with our initials and work stage number... ie. work_dv8_08 ..... work_flatter_08 ..... It worked well. Which is why... always save the file at different major stages of the work with a number. You can go back later in an emergency. It may take up space in your hard drive, but you can always delete that later when the job is done.