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How to both reduce noise and sharpen an image non-destructively.


Mads Hildebrandt

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No, not fully. But I do know, that when I make "stamp visible layer", changes made to layers UNDER that stamp won't have an effect, smart object or not, if I want to go back and make changes before the stamp visible layer.
 

IamSam

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No, not fully. But I do know, that when I make "stamp visible layer", changes made to layers UNDER that stamp won't have an effect, smart object or not.
No need for stamped visible layers when using smart objects. However, I have done this under certain circumstances.
 

Mads Hildebrandt

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But in post #7 which you refer to, it says I have to do exactly that. But then I do not work non-destructivly anymore, since I can't go back and make changes to layers under the stamp visible layer.
 

IamSam

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Here is the original document.
The original image was copied and converted to a smart object.
I added the smart Camera raw filter as described in post #5.
Screen Shot 2017-08-20 at 11.49.56 AM.png

Now I want to add noise to the BG.

I enter the smart object and make my changes. Save
This is the PSB files layers panel.
Note that I again used smart objects and filters for editable and non-destructive editing.
Screen Shot 2017-08-20 at 11.54.06 AM.png

These are the (exaggerated) noise changes to the original document.
Screen Shot 2017-08-20 at 11.50.20 AM.png
 

Mads Hildebrandt

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When I double click the smart object (with the camera raw noise reduction) it opens in a new tab, this is what you want me to do, right? Then in the new tab, convert to smart, add the sharpening filter, mask as needed, file/save, and now it jumps back to the original tab/image with both the noise and sharpening changes. Is that understood correctly?
 

IamSam

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But in post #7 which you refer to, it says I have to do exactly that. But then I do not work non-destructivly anymore, since I can't go back and make changes to layers under the stamp visible layer.
I do see your point but this technique will work. Your wrong in assuming you can't work non-destructively anymore, you would just have to make changes and the replace the stamped visible layer.

This is why in post #12/24, I offer a possibly simpler solution to your problem.
 

IamSam

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When I double click the smart object (with the camera raw noise reduction) it opens in a new tab, this is what you want me to do, right? Then in the new tab, convert to smart, add the sharpening filter, mask as needed, file/save, and now it jumps back to the original tab/image with both the noise and sharpening changes. Is that understood correctly?
Yes! Now were speaking the same language! LOL!
 

Mads Hildebrandt

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But if I have 7 layers OVER the stamp visible layer, that's a whole lot of changes to go through again if I need to make changes UNDER the stamp visible layer.
 

IamSam

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Smart Objects with smart filters are initially confusing but once you grasp the concept, the possibilities are endless! They make so many difficult processes just stupid simple.
 

Mads Hildebrandt

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Yes, but when you want to have more than one smart object with different filters WITH DIFFERENT MASKS, you start having problems. I guess that ain't possible, and you have to nest smart objects within smart objects. As far as I understand, anyway.
 

IamSam

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Yes, but let's say I want to redo the work I did in the new tab after having doubleclicked the smart object, is that possible, I can't see how. When saving, I guess I can't go back.
If I'm understanding you, sure you can. You can open and save a smart object as may times as you wish. The idea is to start with the the original image, copy it, and convert it into a smart object before anything is ever done to it. This way, it's always non-destructively editable. By doing this, there is no layers that could be changed below it.
 

IamSam

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Yes, but when you want to have more than one smart object with different filters WITH DIFFERENT MASKS, you start having problems.
This depends on how clever you are and your understanding of SO's. The layer masking can be confusing at times, but it's nothing that a little experience with SO wont cure.

Look, you have a viable alternative that works and solves your problems. You seem to be dead set against the concept since you continue to find fault. Why don't you take a more positive stance here and give it a try. I think when you have the "ah ha" moment and it starts making sense, you will come back and thank us.
 

Mads Hildebrandt

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Copying the original layer, is the first thing I do everytime. Here is what I'm trying to get at.

I convert the copied original layer to a smart object.
Apply the camera raw filter to add noise reduction. Mask the face so it won't be affected by noise reduction.
Now I doubleclick the smart object thumbnail, which brings me to a new tab. I convert the layer to a smart object. Apply the smart sharpen filter, invert the effect and apply the mask to the face so it gets sharpen. Now I go file/save and close that tab.
Now I have an image which has been sharpen to the face and noise reduced to everything else.
HERE COMES THE PROBLEM
Now I found out I overdid the sharpening

How do I go back and alter the smart sharpening filter to reduce it a bit?
 

IamSam

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Copying the original layer, is the first thing I do everytime. Here is what I'm trying to get at.

I convert the copied original layer to a smart object.
Apply the camera raw filter to add noise reduction. Mask the face so it won't be affected by noise reduction.
Now I doubleclick the smart object thumbnail, which brings me to a new tab. I convert the layer to a smart object. Apply the smart sharpen filter, invert the effect and apply the mask to the face so it gets sharpen. Now I go file/save and close that tab.
Now I have an image which has been sharpen to the face and noise reduced to everything else.
HERE COMES THE PROBLEM
Now I found out I overdid the sharpening

How do I go back and alter the smart sharpening filter to reduce it a bit?
Double click the smart objects thumbnail again and make changes.
 

Mads Hildebrandt

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Oh, that's cool. And I can just doubleclick that again to apply a new filter with a new mask? The only problem is that the effect from previous filters are not visible.

EDIT: Oh, it does show, I guess.

Does the technique by doubleclicking smart object have a name?
 
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IamSam

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Does the technique by doubleclicking smart object have a name?
Not sure I understand the question. But there is not really a specific name for it other than "editing a smart object". The act of double clicking the SO's thumbnail is just how you edit it.
 

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