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IamSam

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Here are the proposed changes to the challenges. Please post your comments pro or con on the changes or any suggestions you might have. Our hope is that you, the members, may see issues that we don't.

1. One entry per member. Do your best work on one image.

2. Entries are hidden until the voting starts. This removes any intimidation factor that might normally occur when your entries are posted.

3. There will be 2 contests per month. One called Basic and one called Advanced.

4. The Challenges will run for 14 days, the poll is up for 7 days.

Example: Jan 1 to the 14th, Advanced.
Jan 8th to the 21st, Basic.

5. Announcements will be made as reminders for all members to vote. An announcement will be posted when the Challenge starts that runs the whole 14 days. Another announcement will be put up when the voting starts that runs the whole 7 days.

6. The winner of a challenge posts the next challenge but has to sit it out.

7. The winner of the Basic challenge will have to move to advanced.
 

peta62

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I like all of them except 1 and 6

1 as an author you never know what would people like, for others the more entries the more interesting stuff to look at. And second entry can solve tiebreaker in voter's mind.

6 not everybody can create a good challenge, no matter how hard he tries. ( like everybody has opinion about this proposal, but not everybody can create it covering the whole complexity )

Cheers,
Peter


Just my opinion.
 

IamSam

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I like all of them except 1 and 6

1 as an author you never know what would people like, for others the more entries the more interesting stuff to look at. And second entry can solve tiebreaker in voter's mind.

6 not everybody can create a good challenge, no matter how hard he tries. ( like everybody has opinion about this proposal, but not everybody can create it covering the whole complexity )

Cheers,
Peter


Just my opinion.
Thanks Peter for your opinion, we really do appreciate it!

We, of course, will offer some reasoning behind the changes.

Number 1
The idea that you never know what people will like.........is the idea! You take your best shot, do your best work that you can. Multiple entries is like throwing many ideas against the wall with the hope that one sticks. One of the many ideas submitted by one single (advanced) member, which may have been executed extremly well, could have been a winning idea from another member (intermediate) that may have not executed the concept as well.

Not everyone has the time to create and post multiple entries, one member stacking the deck in their favor would not be fair to other members.

If it's a close decision for the voters, then perhaps a coin toss would serve as the deciding factor.

Number 6
OK, the reason why we have this is that this has been the way it has always been done. We are certainly open to suggestions. Any ideas?
 

Steve

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I like all of them except 1 and 6
Cheers,
Peter
Hi Peter.

We're experimenting on a couple of different levels with these proposed changes.
You guys have been chatting in the contest thread and showing each other works in progress over the contest period.

This may steer an idea in a particular direction.
Without that "bias" some new "unique" ideas may show up.

By having only one image per contestant you're taking away the advantage a faster member may have.

As for #6, do you have a problem with the winner sitting out the next challenge or posting the next Challenge?
It sounds like the posting of the challenge.

Somebody has to post the challenge but the creation of that challenge can be feedback from all the members.
The winner can decide on his/her own and post the challenge or can talk to contest participants and as a group come up with an idea.
It doesn't matter.

The only responsibility the winner has is to post it.
It doesn't need to be his or her own unique idea.
 

Paul

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I see one issue that will arise from the new challenge rule changes.
 

peta62

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.......

As for #6, do you have a problem with the winner sitting out the next challenge or posting the next Challenge?
It sounds like the posting of the challenge.

.......

The only responsibility the winner has is to post it.
It doesn't need to be his or her own unique idea.
Hi Steve,
neither sitting nor posting, just inventing, but your explanation makes sense. I take posting ( or selection ) as privilege and sitting as logical consequence, iy would not be fair to compete in something person chooses and knows in advance.
Best regards,
Peter
 

peta62

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.......

Number 1
The idea that you never know what people will like.........is the idea! You take your best shot, do your best work that you can. Multiple entries is like throwing many ideas against the wall with the hope that one sticks. One of the many ideas submitted by one single (advanced) member, which may have been executed extremly well, could have been a winning idea from another member (intermediate) that may have not executed the concept as well.

Not everyone has the time to create and post multiple entries, one member stacking the deck in their favor would not be fair to other members.

If it's a close decision for the voters, then perhaps a coin toss would serve as the deciding factor.

Number 6
OK, the reason why we have this is that this has been the way it has always been done. We are certainly open to suggestions. Any ideas?
Hi Sam,

1 - maybe one entry in Basic, up to three in Advanced and voting for entry as opposed for person ? Just thinking loud.

6 - I see after your and Steve's explanation I agree, I did not understand well.

Thank you,
Peter
 

Eggy

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The good news is that there are two challenges per month.
Lets see how it's going, adjustments can be made if necessary.
 

Helios

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I've not been here long and only taken part in one competition so far, but based on that experience I agree with all the changes, they make sense.

I have a few specific questions about some of the points:

2. Entries are hidden until the voting starts. This removes any intimidation factor that might normally occur when your entries are posted.
How would this be put into practice? Would we simply refrain from posting anything until the voting starts?

3. There will be 2 contests per month. One called Basic and one called Advanced.
What defines and differentiates each challenge? The difficulty? Subject matter? Will there be guidelines for what kinds of things to include in a challenge to make it basic or advanced? I'm a little lost on this atm!
As I am the next challenge poster, which would mine be?
 

Steve

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Helios,
Images can be uploaded but will remain hidden until the contest is over.

The difference between the challenges would be who is eligible to participate.
The new Basic Challenge or whatever we call it will be open to anyone that has not yet won a challenge.
It's not about skill level, or subject matter necessarily.

In fact it can be the same exact subject or theme I guess, but it does allow members to compete without having to go up against members that have won multiple contest already.

The current challenge will be available to anyone, newbie and past winner alike.

Once you win the current challenge you're not eligible to enter the Basic Challenge.
Since "you" already won the challenge "you" wouldn't be eligible for the new Basic Challenge.

There seems to be a lot of push back on a single entry, let me talk to IamSam about that.
 

IamSam

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Helios said:
What defines and differentiates each challenge? The difficulty? Subject matter? Will there be guidelines for what kinds of things to include in a challenge to make it basic or advanced? I'm a little lost on this atm!
The only difference between basic and advanced is who participates. The idea, concept, or subject of the challenge makes no difference. Skill and experience are what divides the categories, what a lesser experienced shopper would do with the same challenge will be different than that of a more seasoned shopper.

Helios said:
As I am the next challenge poster, which would mine be?
You can decide. No matter what you come up with, it will work for either category. We, the mod staff, will create the other challenge to start off with.
 

MrToM

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I think multiple entries should be allowed for the 'Basic' comp and just the one for the 'Advanced'.

I think having fewer 'restrictions' would make it more enticing to participate....especially for very new members.

Just a thought.

Regards.
MrToM.
 

IamSam

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peta62 said:
1 - maybe one entry in Basic, up to three in Advanced and voting for entry as opposed for person ? Just thinking loud.
Thanks.

Let me see if I can shed some different light on the matter. With the entries being hidden, we eliminate the reasoning of a diluted idea pool. If two ideas are used in the same challenge, judging will be based on who depicts the same idea better.

But let's say, with a three image limit, many of the more advanced shoppers who have the time, initiative, and skill to create three images, have now increased their chances of winning by two over other members who only enter one image. Even though everyone has the same limitation, they may not have the time to put forth the same effort. For whatever reason that they are limited, why should their chances of winning be reduced by two?

I understand your thinking out loud, but can you offer any reasoning behind it? What purpose does it serve to have more than one entry?
 

IamSam

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I think multiple entries should be allowed for the 'Basic' comp and just the one for the 'Advanced'.

I think having fewer 'restrictions' would make it more enticing to participate....especially for very new members.

Just a thought.

Regards.
MrToM.
The proposed changes are being discussed because of member feedback. The general consensus is that there are not enough restrictions. Past participation has been limited due to an unfair playing field. Multiple entries and beginners having to compete with advanced shoppers has been sited as the number one reason for lack of participation. Also intimidation upon seeing other members entries.

Our goal here is to generate interest and participation in the challenges. We're only making two rule changes and adding a new category.
 

IamSam

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I would also like to add...........

Members who have never competed in any of the challenges, can you please post your reasons why? It would be very helpful and we would be grateful for your input.

You can PM one of the mods if you don't want to post here.
 

Steve

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Thanks guys, that's a lot clearer now.

I'm happy to post the new contest whenever the mods deem it appropriate, then. Things seem a bit up in the air at the moment, so I'd appreciate a PM or similar when the time is right. :)
I think Helios can post the new challenge any time IamSam, you call it.

This "Photoshop Contest" section is now image moderated.
Any images posted will not show until a Moderator OK's them.
Helios, go ahead and start the next contest when Sam gives you the OK.
Then PM me or Sam and we'll approve the image(s).
 

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